Which Barney is THE BARNEY?

Natan

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In Half-life 2 there's a guy named Barney which apperently was a security gaurd at black mesa. he seems to remember you. The thing is in blue shift you were Barney, and you never actually met up with Dr Freeman. you saw him arriving on the train, then on the security camera's, and near the end when your teleporting everywhere you see some soldiers draging him away.

so why is it he remembers fighting along side me in the original half-life? unless he was each and every single Barney in HL1 ?
 

Hazar

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they were all supposed to be the same guy.
 

bam23

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There wasn't supposed to be "THE" Barney, he was just a generic security guard just like there were generic scientists. Fans liked him so much they just made him a character.

I think that's how the story goes.
 
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He's the first guy you see banging on a door with a flashlight at the begining of half-life
 

sinkoman

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atomicspark85 said:
He's the first guy you see banging on a door with a flashlight at the begining of half-life
Wrong.

Barney was just the generic name for all the security guards in HL1.
 

Tyguy

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no, hes right, in blue shift tats how it happened.....and u see gordon go by in the train
 

sinkoman

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Tyguy said:
no, hes right, in blue shift tats how it happened.....and u see gordon go by in the train
You don't seem to realize that the barney banging on the door is just another generic barney.
 
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That's the beauty of this game.

The fans created Barney.

Don't know any other game that has ever achieved this level of interaction with the playerbase and the developers.
 

sinkoman

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[46] pushit [2] said:
That's the beauty of this game.

The fans created Barney.

Don't know any other game that has ever achieved this level of interaction with the playerbase and the developers.
Precisely.

Just as the fans created Gman.
 

OCybrManO

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sinkoman said:
Precisely.

Just as the fans created Gman.
No, not quite. The GMan is, and always was, part of the story. He's actually the same guy you keep seeing over and over again... although, how he does it we don't know just yet. It was obvious that he was a very important character when you beat the first game.

sinkoman said:
You don't seem to realize that the barney banging on the door is just another generic barney.
With Barney, each individual security guard you saw was like a clone of a generic security guard because they didn't have the time or resources to make every character individual... but the fans got so connected with the security guards (as well as the scientists, but that's not what we're talking about now) that they decided to flesh out one of them into a whole character. That's where Blue Shift comes in. According to Blue Shift, Barney Calhoun (the one you see in HL2) is the security guard you see banging on the door at the beginning of the HL tram ride. Since Blue Shift is part of the HL universe... that's the official story.
 

Absinthe

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Blue Shift was made by Gearbox and their stories are not official, just accepted to a degree. Valve has completely ignored Race X, for example.

Bottom line: Barney can be whoever you want. He can be the Blue Shift one. He could be the one before you go to Xen. He can be everbody or a single person. It doesn't matter. Barney is Barney and his proper canonization merely establishes him as a survivor of Black Mesa. The how or when is pretty much irrelevant.
 

Sui

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I agree with OCybrManO. In Half-Life, you never actually hear the security guard's names, "Barney" is just what the developers dubbed them. The fans liked this so much VALVe / Gearbox decided to made this character real, and made "Barney Calhoun (sp?)" who you play as in Blue Shift. Even if you never meet up with Gordon in Half-Life, we can presume that the Barney in B-S was a friend of Gordon's anyway (everyone else appears to know him).

But of course, this is just my view. There is no "set in stone" answer... it's what you want to make of Barney.
 

ThrasherX9

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I think it's pretty much canon that it is indeed the Barney banging on the door while on the Tram Ride. I know this because I believe a long time ago Valve said so... in an interview... some where... I'm 99.9% sure of it... I think.
 

Langolier

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Common sense tells us that it's cannon anyway. It doesn't matter that Gearbox made Blue-Shift. They had permission from Valve. Blue-Shift is an official and liscensed expansion. It's like saying that Star Wars Episode II is not cannon because George Lucas didn't direct it, even though he gave the guy who did permission to make the movie and wrote the script. (Marc Laidlaw wrote out the over-all story arcs for Blueshift and Opposing Force). Sorry, but it is. (though in that case some people wish it really weren't. -.^) I think it's implied that Gordon had been at Black Mesa for at least a few days, so at some point he must have met Barney and one way or another he ended up owning him a bear.

Now in the real world, it's true that the Barney in Half-Life2 is a homage, or a representative of all the security guards who helped us in Half-Life, just the way Kliener is a homage to all the scientists. (even if he only looks like one of them, he sounds like all the scientists)
 

UndeadScottsman

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Blue Shift is official; why else would Valve name the HL2 Barney "Barney Calhoun?" Also, Marc Laidlaw has mentioned Race-X and other gearbox materials; he always speaks of them like they're a part of the word and has never once insinuated they aren't.
 

Kanehdian

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Maybe Gordon and Barney lived in the same dormatory just outside BMRF. The last thing Barney says is obviously "Catch me later and i'll buy you a beer!".
 

Bob_Marley

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According to the cannon Barney is the Barney from blue shift. Although Freeman and Calhoun never meet in the game we have to remember that they both had a life before the BMI and that they may have well met beforehand (well, they did meet beforehand because Barney apprently knows Freeman.)
 

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Barney from HL2 could be Barney Calhoun from Blue Shift and he could promised Gordon some beer BEFORE Lambda Incident ...

Existence of Race-X fit in HL saga storyline but dont fit in storyline of HL2 (like Bullsquids, Houndeyes, Marines...)
 

NJspeed

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I think the official story Valve gave was that every single security guard at Black Mesa was the same Barney.. He pops up at different points, but it's all supposed to be the same one person... I guess just doing his own thing while he's off screen, before he meets back up with you again. That's why in HL2 he says stuff like "Just like old times, eh Gordon?". He wouldn't say that if Barney was only the guy who lets you off the train that you never see again... Like someone else said, one of the Barney's lines from HL1 was about buying a beer when they get out of there..

Anyway, theres only one Barney in HL1 and HL2. I forget where I read this official story.. it may have been Raising the Bar or something else official from Valve. Their original idea in HL1 was to have Gordon go through the complex with Barney as a sidekick... You also have to be somewhat lenient with the story.. as HL1 was so advanced for it's time, I don't think they were thinking ahead 6 years to HL2, and there will probably always be some inconsistencies..

Blue Shift doesn't count in the story, and that is official for sure.. If you think Blue Shift was part of the official story, you probably haven't hung around here too long.. The two expansion packs were not made by Valve, and they do not count as part of the story.
 

Natan

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"According to Blue Shift, Barney Calhoun (the one you see in HL2) is the security guard you see banging on the door at the beginning of the HL tram ride. Since Blue Shift is part of the HL universe... that's the official story."

so why does he say "Just like old times, eh Gordon?" if old time's means the two of them gunning down alein bogies? Barney never fights along side Gordon in BS.


"I think the official story Valve gave was that every single security guard at Black Mesa was the same Barney.. He pops up at different points, but it's all supposed to be the same one person..."

now that's just stupid. cause sometimes he died and then later on you met a new Barney, plus sometiems I had two barney's along side me. can we really beleave that black mesa only has a single security gaurd?
 

Solver

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Sorry, saying that all the guards in Black Mesa were supposed to be the same person is just nonsense. They were the same model, not the same person. There were at least three guards that you would see die (Power up control room, Surface Tension near a minefield, Residue Processing eaten by a Barnacle), and most probably others would die, too. So they're the same person?

The security guards aren't called Barneys. OK, that's the internal name, the name of the model, but it is never given in the game. Barney Calhoun is the guard in Blue Shift, and that is the one you see banging on the door right at the start of HL1. Barney Calhoun is the one who is in HL2.

Whether you accept Blue Shift as canon or not is up to you. From what I have heard from Valve, I take that as canon - these things will probably not make their way back, but I view Blueshift as canon.

There are, of course, some minor inconsistencies no matter what viewpoint you take. That is, however, unsurprising.
 

Natan

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that's true, but raising the bar claimed that Dr. Vance was the first scientist that opened the retenal scanner locked door for you after the BMI. So I figured who would 'The Barney' be? must be Barney Cowhoon since that's his official name.
 

Absinthe

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Langolier said:
They had permission from Valve. Blue-Shift is an official and liscensed expansion.
So? That doesn't mean they need to take into account the stories. We have good reason to believe that Gearbox had no idea what would take place in HL2. Valve just gave them a long enough leash to do what they want without screwing up anything major. So some things work, some things seem a bit conflicting. The importance of these expansions is dependent on the community that cherry-picks what works and what doesn't. There's nothing official about Blue Shift's story.

Sorry, saying that all the guards in Black Mesa were supposed to be the same person is just nonsense. They were the same model, not the same person. There were at least three guards that you would see die (Power up control room, Surface Tension near a minefield, Residue Processing eaten by a Barnacle), and most probably others would die, too. So they're the same person?
Barney is the personified singular entity of the HL1 generic. Same with Kleiner. I know it's not particularly realistic, but neither is having a hundred security guards that look identical. It's nothing more than a convenient narrative strategy (that paid off quite well IMO).
As for his name... yeah? I honestly think they just chose that name to keep fans from scratching their heads after playing Blue Shift. There'd be bitching abound if BS's barney was called "Barney Hotdog" and HL2's was different. It's a last name. They can put whatever they want. Naming him Calhoun is a quick and easy convenience to gleam some sense of continuity.
 

Solver

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Barney is the personified singular entity of the HL1 generic. Same with Kleiner. I know it's not particularly realistic, but neither is having a hundred security guards that look identical. It's nothing more than a convenient narrative strategy (that paid off quite well IMO).
Yes, but there was a good reason for having guards and scientists look the same - technology. There was no tech to randomize faces, and so some suspense of disbelief was required when everywhere there were 4 scientists and 1 guard. That, however, in no way means they were all supposed to be the same person.
 

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The_Great_Walter said:
I believe the HL2 Barney is particularly the one you control in BS...
Yep.

"Just like old times". It means, its just like when they were fighting at black mesa, they don't necessarly have to be together.

Barney Calhourn(Sp?) is the Barney who is banging on the door at the start.

He is a security guard, so he should know who goes in, and who goes out.
That, and Dr. Kliener probably told Barney about Gordon.
EDIT: Btw...
The guys that develop games don't just push a button and get a randomized face, they have to create it.
They most likely did the general security guards, just because the computers weren't as powerful back then, and the detail on each and every secruity guard wasn't necessary.
 

Absinthe

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Solver said:
That, however, in no way means they were all supposed to be the same person.
Nobody said they were. Barney in HL2 is the product of proper canonization. They took the generic and evolved him into an actual character. Think of it as Barney 2.0 if that makes sense to you. Valve has simply rolled over the inconsistencies in HL to do so.

Fliko said:
"Just like old times". It means, its just like when they were fighting at black mesa, they don't necessarly have to be together.
Assuming Gordon knew Barney fought. Which he doesn't.
 

Solver

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Nobody said they were. Barney in HL2 is the product of proper canonization. They took the generic and evolved him into an actual character. Think of it as Barney 2.0 if that makes sense to you. Valve has simply rolled over the inconsistencies in HL to do so.
Yes, but some people earlier in the thread were implying that all the guards in HL1 were the same person, which is what I was replying to.

Assuming Gordon knew Barney fought. Which he doesn't.
It doesn't take a great leap of imagination to figure that Barney fought. Gordon knows that Barney was a guard at Black Mesa and knows that he has survived and escaped. From there, it would be a very logical thing to conclude that Barney had at least some fights - hardly anyone who was in Black Mesa at the time of the incident could get out alive without a fight.
 

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Absinthe said:
So? That doesn't mean they need to take into account the stories. We have good reason to believe that Gearbox had no idea what would take place in HL2. Valve just gave them a long enough leash to do what they want without screwing up anything major. So some things work, some things seem a bit conflicting. The importance of these expansions is dependent on the community that cherry-picks what works and what doesn't. There's nothing official about Blue Shift's story.
Marc Laidlaw has already stated that all the Gearbox material is canon; as it should be. Why would Valve let Gearbox develope new additions to their property if they weren't going to "have them count." Also, there is no reason to think Valve would just send off Gearbox without ANY supervision (Unless you think Valve is stupid and doesn't care about their fanchise.)

It's not like Gearbox's contributions are owned by Gearbox either; Both Barney Calhoun and Adrian Shephard are owned by Valve. (Hell, as previously mentioned, the credits for HL2 specificly call Barney "Barney Calhoun." That's not the kind of behavior I find indicitive of dropping Gearbox's contributions to the curb.)
 

Absinthe

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Solver said:
It doesn't take a great leap of imagination to figure that Barney fought. Gordon knows that Barney was a guard at Black Mesa and knows that he has survived and escaped. From there, it would be a very logical thing to conclude that Barney had at least some fights - hardly anyone who was in Black Mesa at the time of the incident could get out alive without a fight.
Considering all the things that happened in Black Mesa, Gordon wouldn't know for sure. He could have been teleported out in some strange accident. He could have snuck out. We also know that some people were already on the surface. Barney could have escaped through a swath of aliens, one or two, or perhaps he didn't have to use a single bullet. It's also dependent on how far from the surface he was.

UndeadScottsman said:
Marc Laidlaw has already stated that all the Gearbox material is canon; as it should be. Why would Valve let Gearbox develope new additions to their property if they weren't going to "have them count." Also, there is no reason to think Valve would just send off Gearbox without ANY supervision (Unless you think Valve is stupid and doesn't care about their fanchise.)
When did I say without supervision? Valve probably gave them creative freedom under some specific restrictions. It's not so much that they don't count as much as it is that they don't want the expansions contradicting hard HL canon. And I'd like you to point out where Laidlaw said Gearbox's contribution is official canon. Last interview I watched, Laidlaw said that previous expansions had material that seemed to deviate from it.

It's not like Gearbox's contributions are owned by Gearbox either; Both Barney Calhoun and Adrian Shephard are owned by Valve. (Hell, as previously mentioned, the credits for HL2 specificly call Barney "Barney Calhoun." That's not the kind of behavior I find indicitive of dropping Gearbox's contributions to the curb.)
What that indicates to me is Valve securing the rights to those characters so that they can use them should they feel the need to. A more cynical person would say that they can be a source of cash flow should they find themselves wanting to exploit them.
 

Adrik_Senturu

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Well, The Barney we see in BS is the only Barney that is actually NAMED. No other barney in the game has a name, we just refer to them as barney because of the Model name. So in BS the Security Gaurd is Barney Calhoun (which Valves owns the rights too) Than im pretty sure were looking at the same Barney here. I mean the last names ARE BOTH THE SAME. That should be evidence enough. They didnt even need to give him a last name he just couldve been Barney, But he is named Barney Calhoun in Half-life 2.
 

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Absinthe said:
Considering all the things that happened in Black Mesa, Gordon wouldn't know for sure. He could have been teleported out in some strange accident. He could have snuck out. We also know that some people were already on the surface. Barney could have escaped through a swath of aliens, one or two, or perhaps he didn't have to use a single bullet. It's also dependent on how far from the surface he was.
Well A. Gordon isn't stupid; it's highly like that if Barney survived, he would have had to fight his way out. Secondly; Barney is the one who makes the statement, ergo Barney is the one who needs to know that both he and Gordon went through similar events. (And between Rosenburg's comment about the Lambda labs puting all their hopes on Freeman for fighting the invasion, and any scuttlebutt and rumours after the incident from other survivors like Kliener, it's very likely he would have heard about gordon's exploits)


When did I say without supervision? Valve probably gave them creative freedom under some specific restrictions. It's not so much that they don't count as much as it is that they don't want the expansions contradicting hard HL canon.
.... Okay, that is exactly what I was saying. They're canon, but there's nothing that's going to contradict anything. Everything shown is 100% adherant to what's going to come next either by being made with within the Laidlaw's specifications (Like the Xen-Relay teleporter in Blue Shift) or effected a realm of the story that Valve wasn't going to explore (Race-X).

And I'd like you to point out where Laidlaw said Gearbox's contribution is official canon. Last interview I watched, Laidlaw said that previous expansions had material that seemed to deviate from it.
I can't find the quote anymore, through I can find several arguments referencing the quote. Go figure. Basically it was to the effect of Gearbox stuff being canon, but not effecting anything. Essentially nothing Gearbox made is going to contradict anything Valve does (Probably why they blew up the facility; get rid of all the evidence ;)).

Laidlaw has also spoken about Race X as if they were part of the actual canon and not something tacked on.
As for Race-X being from Xen, I'm not sure any of the aliens
we've seen were actually from Xen originally. Xen is a borderworld--a
place you have to go through to get to other places. It was colonized
by certain creatures that could adapt to it. The Race-X creatures
didn't seem particularly well adapted to Xen. I imagine their home lay
somewhere beyond.
Source: Page 21 of the "Info from Valve" thread.
 

kirovman

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I think it was mentioned somewhere (maybe raising the bar?) that he is a amalgamation of all the Barneys in Black Mesa.
 

Adrik_Senturu

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But than why the last name Calhoun like I said? The only Barney in Black Mesa that has the last name Calhoun is the one we play as in Blue Shift. Like I said before they DID not need to give Barney A last name unless they wanted him to be a specific barney (The BS one)
 

ríomhaire

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I always took Valve using the surname Calhoun in the HL2 credits as saying it's the BS one.
 
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