Valve not ready. What about Bloodlines then?

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gorman

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I registered today because I don't see anybody mentioning what I believe it's an important piece of information.

I'm an Italian videogame journalist and I attended this year's E3. At E3 there was a completely playable level of Vampire: Bloodlines by Activision. That game is based on HL2 engine and it was running perfectly, allowing you to interact with the environment and to... well, play it. I played it...

Now, a lot of people say that the code stolen is the most recent incarnation of Valve's code. How can it be? I didn't download the beta or the code, but I have seen screenshots full of errors and read about a lot of people stating that the code was far from being ready.

How is it, then, that Bloodlines was running perfectly, based on a code not more recent than middle of May?
 
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Wonderfull news!

Thanks mate. Does this settle it yet

The hacker was talking BULLSHITE
He did not steall all the code. Only well most of it.
 

commando

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i always thought the hacker was talking BULL!

i think all the hacker has is what he sent out to everyone. nothin more nothing less.
 

MultiVaC

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Of course he was talking bull. It's rediculous how easliy some people take the words of a theif.
 
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Tomek`

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One question. how can it be based on HL2 engine? when HL2 engine is was/is brand new?
 

Buckyfg

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Well, there are two different things here, the source code and the game beta, I presume the engine has been done for a while now, so if the engine code is getting a ton of errors he doesnt have it all. and by the sounds of it the beta is more like a alpha. he probably grabbed a bunch of stuff and is try to piece it all together.

Vampire looks pretty damn kool, that trailer they have out is nice!
Damn I really hope I win that MSU contest and get a new comp soon, my G3 ti 500 is on its very last legs now. once these games come out and also maxpayne2 its all over for my card.
 
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Valve licensed the engine out when it was first completed. Quite a while ago. Cant remember exactly when. But i think it was last september :)
 

Buckyfg

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Originally posted by Tomek`
One question. how can it be based on HL2 engine? when HL2 engine is was/is brand new?
They licensed their engine to Troika a while ago. they just couldnt tell anyone about till HL2 was unvieled. standard practice I think.

I presume the engine was done about a year ago, maybe some tweaks here and there but basicly done.
 

toast

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Ever think the demo is full of bugs because they're missing so much stuff and because the errors are caused by things that are not considered to be the core of the game engine? I'm sure that by now the engine is done, or close to it.
 
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gorman

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I mean... I thought this was pretty much in the public knowledge. Bloodlines was playable as in "here's the mouse, here's the keyboard, go around and ejoy", it wasn't a pre-scripted sequence or anything.

There was a game running in front of me... and it looked a lot better than the screens I have seen take from this stolen code... and it was at E3, middle of May.

Can anybody else who attended E3 please confirm that I am not having hallucinatory memories?
 
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SiRiNO

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Hmm i believed the hacker, but know it doesnt seem so convincing. Bloodlines is gunna rock :)
 
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gorman

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Originally posted by Buckyfg
I presume the engine was done about a year ago, maybe some tweaks here and there but basicly done.
Then why so many people are saying that looking at the code it seems half-finished or stuff like that?
 

commando

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everyone believed him because the hacker gave everyone the game. so because of that, they believed everything he says. also they think they have the whole game because the hacker said so.

if you have the whole game...

1) what happens at the start, finish...?
2) why isn't the manipultor model added to the leak?
3) why? why? because that leak isn't the whole game!
 

Buckyfg

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Originally posted by gorman
Then why so many people are saying that looking at the code it seems half-finished or stuff like that?
It means that the "hacker punk" didnt get all of it or doesnt know jack about compiling it to a working engine. Troika obviously has a solid working version of it. Also the engine and the missing textures or scripts e.t.c are a totally different thing
 
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SiRiNO

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Originally posted by commando
everyone believed him because the hacker gave everyone the game. so because of that, they believed everything he says. also they think they have the whole game because the hacker said so.

if you have the whole game...

1) what happens at the start, finish...?
2) why isn't the manipultor model added to the leak?
3) why? why? because that leak isn't the whole game!
The hacker said he had everything valve did, so obviously valve hasnt finnished it and anon cant possibly know what happens at the start, finnish.

The manipulator model IS there, i dont know how you got the idea that it isnt.
 

commando

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the maniputor weapon MODEL isn't there man. i have seen a movie clip of the leak with the Maniputor weapon....and the player is using a pistol model for the manipultor weapon!
 
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gorman

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Originally posted by SiRiNO
The hacker said he had everything valve did, so obviously valve hasnt finnished it and anon cant possibly know what happens at the start, finnish.
When I played Bloodlines at E3 the engine looked quite finished... and it was middle of May. Maybe Valve hasn't finished designing levels, but the engine was pretty much ready in May...
 

silent

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Exactly... All these wannabe hacker idiots believe this ANON guys and now they're pissing their pants in it. They all need to shup up because people who know what they're talking about say their wrong.
 
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EinsteinsBrain

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who is developing bloodlines? link pls

where is it stated that Bloodline are using the hl2 engine?

I really want to believe this but I have not heard about companies using the hl2 engine yet.
 
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Gorman you still don't seem to get it.

there's a difference in having a finished working Game engine...and having a finished working build of the actual game.

this means that the engine is done and ready and you could in theory make a finished game using it.

apparently Troika had the E3 demo done and bug free...

the leaked beta or whatever....might have a working engine. but the game content is lacking sounds, models, scripts etc.
 

MMhardKy

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Isn't there such a thing that bloodlines cannot be released before HL2 or so? So that HL2 can be the first revolutionary game at the market and get all the sales?
 

PoiSoNSpiDeR

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Originally posted by commando
the maniputor weapon MODEL isn't there man. i have seen a movie clip of the leak with the Maniputor weapon....and the player is using a pistol model for the manipultor weapon!
the manipulator model is their, the pistolwhich is being used for the test demo gun which picks objects up and you can swing them around.........trust me i know :p i have ..
 
G

gorman

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Originally posted by PriNcE oF SpAcE
Gorman you still don't seem to get it.

there's a difference in having a finished working Game engine...and having a finished working build of the actual game.

this means that the engine is done and ready and you could in theory make a finished game using it.
Don't worry, I get it fully. I've been in this business since 1992 :)

It's just that on a lot of forums I've read people complaining that the source code seemed unfinished. And that led me to think about my play experience with Bloodlines.

Regarding Troika using Source, here's an interview on IGN.
 

commando

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hmmm... i don't know if i believe you with the test demo gun man. naaa why the HELL would there be a test demo gun for a maniputor. i think you should PROVE that there is a manipultor and take a screen of a new area with the maniputor. and pm it. or something.
 
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Originally posted by gorman
Don't worry, I get it fully. I've been in this business since 1992 :)

It's just that on a lot of forums I've read people complaining that the source code seemed unfinished. And that led me to think about my play experience with Bloodlines.

Regarding Troika using Source, here's an interview on IGN.
well those people didn't code Source...so my guess would be that they really couldn't tell.

and as other people have said...the hackers might not have gotten the whole thing.
 
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EinsteinsBrain

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Prince of Space:

Thanks. I more and more believe that what the creacker stole was old or incomplete code. I have no idea why this would be but the code he has seems far to incomplete and buggy for another developer to already have a working game...

It is still probably true that Valve is behind schedule but I now more then ever doubt that the code circulating is the best code available at Valve.
 
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qckbeam

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It's rather obvious that the "beta" code is incomplete stuff. The hacker did not steal everything valve had, he stole whatever was on Gabes computer (if he stole other stuff he hasn't shown us yet). There are quite a few holes in the hackers statement that this was all Valve had "no more, no less".

1) There is no HDR rendering in the beta, although it was shown in the last video we were given.

2) The console displays error messages everytime a level is started or impulse 101 is used saying the weapon models are older versions than what the engine was excpecting (most are revison 32 while the engine asks for revison 37).

3) Half of the time the NPC's don't move their mouth during cutscenes (the same ones we saw at E3 with full lip synching and animation).

4) Most of the levels not E3 related seem to be in the planning stages. This is difficult to explain without posting screens so I won't bother. Just trust me, pretty much every level without an 'e3_' prefix is in testing stages.

5) There are lot's of models missing which we saw at E3, lot's of sounds missing that we saw at E3, and some textures that we saw at E3 are also missing.

So when the hacker said he got everything Valve had, no more no less, he was lying. He didn't even manage to steal the full E3 demo. This engine is just an old E3 build of the game (more proof it's E3 material is in the source code comments but I can't post them here) while the content is partially E3, partially really old levels. It's missing lot's of models and textures, and is using alot of art which Gabe himself confirmed to be placeholder. It's an old build.
 
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EinsteinsBrain

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qckbeam:

This is what I'm starting to suspect as well so maybe valve didn't lie when they say that only part of the code was stolen... My feeling is that he got a way with more thne the 1/3 VU claims but it is still incomplete.

This would be very good news and could also explain why the buggy is looking worse then in the e-3 demo... the question is why Gabe (or someone else) left copy of so much code laying around outside the protected and revision controlled data base though...

Oh well... let's hope that they will be able to release the game before the end of the year...
 
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I think the mods should create a sticky dedicated to prooving this hacker wrong whenever we get a chance. They should lock it and then add to it themselves whenever they see something like this. :)
That way maybe some people will understand that the hacker did not do a good thing. He effectivly dealyed our most anticipated game (Most Likely) and has probably cos valve alot.


He is a common crook
He is what we commonly call a code kiddy most likely. He uses programs to hack with. ie he doesent have the inteligence to make his own hacks. He doesent even have the inteligence to realise what he has done is regarded more commonly as idiotic rather than heroic.


Right its late and I am tired, ..................
 
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Originally posted by EinsteinsBrain
Prince of Space:

Thanks. I more and more believe that what the creacker stole was old or incomplete code. I have no idea why this would be but the code he has seems far to incomplete and buggy for another developer to already have a working game...

It is still probably true that Valve is behind schedule but I now more then ever doubt that the code circulating is the best code available at Valve.
hey man don't thank me...I know as much as anybody else(ok...I admit probably more than some of the dum...erh...naíve people around here)

actually I should be thanking you...for bringing up the subject of a working demo build of Bloodlines...since that somewhat proves that the Source engine should be working.
 
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Btw more proof for you.

Tell ne does it work on a TNT2 graphics card. I ask this because from what I have been told it only contains the source on directX 8 and 9.



I want someone to go through the source and find all the big errors such the two liquid tanks in the E3 Kleiner video not being there in the stolen version. And then someone can tell me why they do not appear when they are quite clearly there in the old videos we got at E3 a long time ago.



THIS HACKER IS A LIEING ASS HOLE
That simple boys and girls.
 
G

gorman

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Does the "beta" run on the same source code that was spread first? Or it's a different compile? I haven't downloaded anything, so I can't say...
 
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EinsteinsBrain

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gorman:

how complete was the bloodline build? How long could you see someone play it (or did you play it your self?)... it must have looked awewome... a RPG based on source would rock hard!

oh! and prince of space... I didn't start this topic gorman did.... I only aked for confirmation that bloodline will use source engine.. and several people provided links to ign's site that proves this...
 
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qckbeam

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The beta does run off the compiled version of the stolen source.
 
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