Valve 1, Warez Kiddies 0

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falen55

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wow, big deal, valve just banned 20,000 useless accounts.
when you use the hack you create a new account to play halflife2 anyways, so even if it is banned you just create as many more as you want....
gj valve, you morons
 

smacky

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if people get a good hacked version of the game then a steam account will be created for them, valve can't stop that. its very simple
 

hunteraz

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Congrats to Valve, however 20,000 compared to how many other people are successfully playing it without and repercussion is kind of small. :p
 

63

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Damn! All 20,000 of my accounts have been banned! :)
 
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falen55 said:
wow, big deal, valve just banned 20,000 useless accounts.
when you use the hack you create a new account to play halflife2 anyways, so even if it is banned you just create as many more as you want....
gj valve, you morons
err... If you didn't realize that Valve already knows this then you really need to do some research. What else was Valve supposed to do? Leave those accounts running? They have to do something incase you didn't realize it.
 
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skynet6

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i cant understand why valve dont use a server-side-check to prevent users from playing css online... u can still download css via bittorrent and play it online on public servers
 

polyguns

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well, valve got like 10 dollars off of me for blueshift, and whatever the voucher from my radeon got them, but their never getting another dime off of me cause their a shady ass company that lies to the fans and it seems they lied to their publisher about steam. I sooooo own a copy of hl2, but at the same time i would like some way to burn my game to cd, so i can take it anywhere i have a computer and play it, without having to install steam on that pc.
Steam really pisses me off, my net went down for a night, and i couldn't even load steam, it sucked bad, but i guess i need to quit bitching, its not like im gonna play the game over again, so till mods come out, hl2 is pretty useless to me.

DOWN WITH STEAM.

and all you fanbois know if bill gates was doing what gabe newell is doing with your operating system, you would all be pissed. admit it.
 
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SkylineGT-R34

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OMG, its hilarious how you guys think you know everything, I know for a fact that there are 2 versions of HL2 that are out that are 100% working, without any problems, so stop making up lies, so what if Valve banned those accounts, there is still 2 fully playable versions of HL2 and there is nothing Valve can do about it.

P.S I have the ATI voucher, so I could care less, but stop bsing about Valve 1 - Warez 0, if anything its Warez 2 - Valve 1.
 

firemachine69

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Personally guys, here's my beef:

It FURCKING LAGS!

Cause of that stupid stupid stupid file decrypter. COME ON VALVE.

I bought the game, is it necessary that you like take over my computer. It's made the game about half enjoyable as what it could be.

For that reason, the Steam-less HL2 warez is tempting to me. NO MORE DECRYPTING-HD LAG.


The "enable offline mode" is BS BTW, it'll still try to check if the PC is online, the difference is that if it isn't connected, and the game has been verified.
 
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falen55

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The Mullinator said:
err... If you didn't realize that Valve already knows this then you really need to do some research. What else was Valve supposed to do? Leave those accounts running? They have to do something incase you didn't realize it.
yea i know that valve knows about the accounts, but you guys are making such a big deal out of this. this shouldnt even be news since it hasnt affected ppl who play the warezed version of the game at all.
btw, how is valve 1 and warez 0? you can still easily play the warezed version even thou valve has "disabled" the warez accounts.

yippe kayey, valve has disabled 20,000 accounts! who gives a sh*t?
 
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SkylineGT-R34 said:
OMG, its hilarious how you guys think you know everything, I know for a fact that there are 2 versions of HL2 that are out that are 100% working, without any problems, so stop making up lies, so what if Valve banned those accounts, there is still 2 fully playable versions of HL2 and there is nothing Valve can do about it.

P.S I have the ATI voucher, so I could care less, but stop bsing about Valve 1 - Warez 0, if anything its Warez 2 - Valve 1.
Just incase you didn't know, around 90% of the people here knew that as well. Besides, it was a given that the game would be pirated. However it was not a given that Valve would be able to piss off around 20000 people who did attempt to pirate it. Thats where this score came from. Besides its just plain fun to piss off warez kiddies.
 

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mattgirv said:
It is totally legal, they are playing games on a service that is given to them by Valve. If they break the terms of the agreement, then their account is then voided.

Fair play to Valve.
Im realy not questioning the legality as much as the ethics of this way of doing things.
 
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SkylineGT-R34

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The Mullinator said:
Just incase you didn't know, around 90% of the people here knew that as well. Besides, it was a given that the game would be pirated. However it was not a given that Valve would be able to piss off around 20000 people who did attempt to pirate it. Thats where this score came from. Besides its just plain fun to piss off warez kiddies.
20,000 banned accounts = 0wnage.
 

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I am sad that this discussion has come to the point where its just an arguement between the people for this method, and those agianst instead of, as i tried with my post earlyer, discussing the possible implications if this trend is allowed to continue.

Like i said, i am in NO way condoning piracy, but i beg of you all and especially those of you who ifact celebrate this scary display of power by valve. Please contemplate the potetial consequences of a market based on this kind of power in the hands of those who provide the services. And what, if taken to the extreeme this would become in the future.

Not contemplating the potential implications of this kind of power put in the hands of developers an service providers is both naive and stupid.

It is our job as consumers to keep an eye on the corporate world, because they are not nearly as concerned with our comforts as their income. We are the people who have to say when enough is enough. Because obviously they are avoiding overstepping the law, and especially in the american economy, the consumers are very powerless compared to large, economicly strong companies. This might seem harsh, and especially considering, like many of you i am a fan of both valve and their products.

This is a milestone, if infact valve have gone beyond blocking users from a spesific game, to actually blocking them from using other legaly purchaced games.

They are taking over the role that we for good reason have courts and law for. We do NOT want the job of passing judgement and punishment put in the hands of people who have economic interests in this matter.

I beg of you all to take your heads out of the sand and try to speculate on the bigger picture, because i dont want to be the one that in ten years say "i told you so" if things actually end up turning for the worst. We dont want to end up in some kind of consumerist slavery here.

(The last paragraph is a bit extreeme i admit, but maby it will make a few more people wake up and think.) :)
 

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Dipso said:
Im not condoning piracy in any way here, but what if they where stupid enough to warez with an account where they had games they actually payed for? did they suddenly loose the right to use them to? That would be kinda like the store raiding my home taking everything i ever bought there because i shoplifted one item...

I have to say, as much as i enjoy the thought of some stupid warezers getting a lesson thought. The idea of valve passing judgment and law instead of the propper authoreties is disturbing, if this is a sign of things to come, its cause for concern.

Imagine the riaa entering your home and formating your harddrive and giving an assrape because you have mp3's (I actually own most of the albums i have ripped to mp3's, having an mp3 player shoulnd make me a criminal... )

I do think the latest trend in stripping the consumer of rights to own their own purchases is scary as hell. At this rate corporations will have more authority over how we live our lives then the government, or even our selves. SCARY
simply having MP3s is not illegal, distributing them without paying for them is illegal. Apparently the RIAA is making sure people confuse simply having MP3's as to distributing them so people won't get onto P2P programs. Jack Valenti.. wait.. that's the MPAA.. well, both of them should embrace the internet, not fight it. Like the chinese army in C&C Generals, it will win with brute force and might.
 
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doom3fanboy

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SidewinderX said:
But right now 20,000 accounts have been banned, the vast majority of them were people who were trying/ did pirate the game.

Valve is not arresting you or charging you with any violation of the law. They are simply no longer providing you with thier service. If EULAs aren't enforcible by law, Valve isn't forced to provide you with the service in the first place. You don't have a legal "right" to have a steam account.

Anyway, no it won't stop piracy, but killing 20K accounts annoyed many of the pirates, and that's worth it.
I never said, it's not Valves right to annoy pirates.

But the "vast majority" isn't everyone they blocked. They might as well have blocked some people with a legit copy. And although you are right about Valve not having to offer a service if the EULAs aren't enforcable, people did buy the game and their game is worthless now b/c the key is bound to their blocked Steam account. That's like Valve stealing the game you bought?
I am not into law, but I don't think it is illegal to enter a wrong CDkey if you own the product. (That again might be illegal according to the EULA, but we already know about EULAs now)

Valve is trying to sell their product. Of course are they trying to fight piracy, but what's the point of pissing of customers if their anti-piracy meassures obviously don't work? I bet a lot of people are not going to buy any more steam products after HL2.

I, for example wouldn't have bought HL2 if it hadn't come with my ATI card for free anyway. Just b/c I don't like Steam for various reasons.
 

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ya but all they have to do now is make a new account and get the cracked version of the games

this did absolutely nothing
 

Dipso

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hero said:
ya but all they have to do now is make a new account and get the cracked version of the games

this did absolutely nothing
But lets say you owned a copy of condition zero, or som other popular online valve game. You then either tried the pirated hl2 key because you wanted to pirate the game, or maby because you where told this key allowed you to play without the dvd in the drive or you wanted to check if the game lived up to the hype before buying.

If valve now closes your account your only way of getting the other games you HAVE bought is buy purchacing them agian. And i for one find this VERY wrong. Like i have said before, blocking your hl2 and even refusing you to install hl2 is one thing, but that it should have concequences with other games i find just wrong.

Whats next? they format my harddrive? Break your vidcard?... :)

The only thing people have learned here is dont pirate on an account you have legal games on.
 
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Philibob

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Maybe they should just concentrate on making good games, since those always sell. Or at least games that consumers want to buy.
That wouldn't work, people seem to fall into one of a few categories:
1. People will copy all games regardless of what they are.
2. People will say they'll copy a game and if it's good they'll buy it and then don't.
3. People will say they'll copy a game and if it's good they'll buy it and do.
4. People that buy the game straight off

You automatically lose you with the first 2, with the 3, if you download from something like bittorrent, or some other P2P, it'll facilitate those in categoies 1 and 2 -> more peers = faster download speed & easier to find the file.

The only way to get around this would be to stop piracy altogether - which is near enough impossible. Most games companies should just forget about copy protection altogether - you'd get near enough the same amount of people buying the product (unless it's multiplayer and has good online piracy checks)

The main thing steam has done though is to scare the average consumer, the kind of person who'll just ask a friend, "will you do a copy of [insert game here] for me?" - with a system like steam and news that 20,000 accounts have been disabled because of people copying/trying to copy hl2 they'll be more cautious and probably end up buying the game legally.

The main way to stop piracy would be to use one giant steam like system that contains all developers - if you try to copy 1 product you'd lose everything - as long as there was a way of only creating 1 account per person, how many people would risk losing everything? Although this definately isn't going to happen anytime soon.

EDIT - This isn't directed at you Doom3fanboy - just using a quote from you as a starting point
 

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He means if they had purchased the games.

Problem is, a lot of them probably wouldnt have.
 
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doom3fanboy

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Philibob said:
The only way to get around this would be to stop piracy altogether - which is near enough impossible. Most games companies should just forget about copy protection altogether - you'd get near enough the same amount of people buying the product (unless it's multiplayer and has good online piracy checks)
So true. I haven't heard of one single game that hasn't been cracked. But how many honest customers have problems with copy protection? If your product is good people will buy it and no copy protection in the world is going to sell a crappy game.
Look at the music industry. Ever wonder why they lose money? Is it b/c people download mp3s? Or maybe it's just that the past few years the music just all sounds the same? And in my opinion half life would have even sold more w/o steam.

The main way to stop piracy would be to use one giant steam like system that contains all developers - if you try to copy 1 product you'd lose everything - as long as there was a way of only creating 1 account per person, how many people would risk losing everything? Although this definately isn't going to happen anytime soon.
And how many accounts would get banned by mistake? And btw. something like that is planned for M$ Longhorn. It's called tcpa....

Any of you guys ever read 1984? :D
 

alphadec

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In my mind Valv Software is holly and same goes for Half Life 2.

This is a quality software that we PAY for, so u guy's who have tried to rip-off Valve had it comming.
 
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Mort1465

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Dipso said:
Whats next? they format my harddrive? Break your vidcard?... :)

The only thing people have learned here is dont pirate on an account you have legal games on.
Why not?

surely all you have learnt is don't pirate games full stop.

I have gladly paid full price for my software which valve spent years writing/developing. And for that I thank them for that, but do you spend months and months making a game or stop people from copying it??????

which is more important????
 

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I do believe this is Valve 2, warez kids 0. During the summer Valve cracked down on people doing the same thing or something similar.
 

Dipso

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Mort1465 said:
Why not?

surely all you have learnt is don't pirate games full stop.

I have gladly paid full price for my software which valve spent years writing/developing. And for that I thank them for that, but do you spend months and months making a game or stop people from copying it??????

which is more important????
You are so not seeing the point here. At all. Have you read through my posts on why this trend is a cause for concern?

At the moment this is at its infancy, but in the bigger picture i find it fundamentaly worng, and incredibly dangerous to put complete power and controll over our computer and software usage in the hands of the software developers.

In an exreeme example to try and get my point across: Imagine, microsoft wiping your harddrive because you used firefox or because you misspelled bill gates. Imagine subversive governments destroying computers and networks bellonging to the opressed opposition.

Its ironic that the game is about a police state and controll sosiety, when the system that brings us this game, puts us just that small tiny step closer to it.

I know it might sound like im overdramatizing this, but i think its important that we consider this issue, because this is how such systems get implemented today. We just dont wake up one morning and find our selves living in a world controlled by microsoft, (or what ever nasty powerhungry controll organ you want (U.S.*cough*A.))

And this is also why various forms of DRM and other forms of consumer rights controll is a fundamentaly bad thing.

Up untill a few years a go consumers had the right to copy their music. For instance i could take my new cd, make a tape recording and use in my car. To day more and more people are finding that the cant enjoy their music in the ways they did, because we are moving away from a sosiety where you buy products, you are now buying to use the products in certain (more and more) restricted ways.

If the corporations of today had their way, they would probably find a way of charging us vast amounts of money for nothing more than air.
 

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Dipso said:
I am sad that this discussion has come to the point where its just an arguement between the people for this method, and those agianst instead of, as i tried with my post earlyer, discussing the possible implications if this trend is allowed to continue.

Like i said, i am in NO way condoning piracy, but i beg of you all and especially those of you who ifact celebrate this scary display of power by valve. Please contemplate the potetial consequences of a market based on this kind of power in the hands of those who provide the services. And what, if taken to the extreeme this would become in the future.

Not contemplating the potential implications of this kind of power put in the hands of developers an service providers is both naive and stupid.

It is our job as consumers to keep an eye on the corporate world, because they are not nearly as concerned with our comforts as their income. We are the people who have to say when enough is enough. Because obviously they are avoiding overstepping the law, and especially in the american economy, the consumers are very powerless compared to large, economicly strong companies. This might seem harsh, and especially considering, like many of you i am a fan of both valve and their products.

This is a milestone, if infact valve have gone beyond blocking users from a spesific game, to actually blocking them from using other legaly purchaced games.

They are taking over the role that we for good reason have courts and law for. We do NOT want the job of passing judgement and punishment put in the hands of people who have economic interests in this matter.

I beg of you all to take your heads out of the sand and try to speculate on the bigger picture, because i dont want to be the one that in ten years say "i told you so" if things actually end up turning for the worst. We dont want to end up in some kind of consumerist slavery here.

(The last paragraph is a bit extreeme i admit, but maby it will make a few more people wake up and think.) :)
Okay, some things really need to be cleared up here, as it seems 99% of you have absolutely no idea how software licensing works.

FACTS:

1) When you *purchase* a game, you are only purchasing the physical media, be it a disc, Cd etc, and a *licence* to use the game.

2) This applies for every piece of software in existance, even open source and freeware. Why, becauase unless you are actually buying a development license to the code, you will never own the code, which is the actual game.

So here is how it works with ALL software made. The developer makes the software. The offer end users a license to use the software, being the compiled code. you, the end user accept that license and the conditions that go with it and use the program.

This is no different to any other program. I challenge you to find one software licence agreement fro a retail product that says you own the *actual* game. You own squat, only the disks, manual and licence card or whatever, everything else is licenced.

Now usually the license conditions will stipulate the terms of the license. Some are for a set period, maybe a year. After that you need to renew. Some may be for ever. Most are *limited*. That means you can not copy them, save maybe a backup, sell it, reverse engineer it etc etc.

Most have clauses that the publisher can terminate the agreement under certain conditions, and this is what valve use. furthermore valve state that they can disable your account and thus the other *licenses* you have. Remember you do not own the actual game.

So please, all of you talking about comparing it to someone coming in and stealing your other CDs because you pirated one etc, use the facts. In *fact* as others have stated music and videos are exactly the same. You do not own *the song*, they are jsut granting you a right to listen to it. So if some music company wanted to, they could probably do the same as valve.

This is the way it has been for the past 20 odd years of software development at least folks. Get used to it and please use the facts, not fear mongering.
 

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Dipso said:
At the moment this is at its infancy, but in the bigger picture i find it fundamentaly worng, and incredibly dangerous to put complete power and controll over our computer usage in the hands of the computer developers.
Sorry to burst your bubble, but that is how it has been for the last 20 odd years as I said above. You only ever have a license to use software, and that license says how you may use it. for example 1 CPU or 2, backup copy or not, yearly renewal or not.

Dipso, please find me one piece of retail software you own that does not have a license and in fact states that YOU own the software, that is the intellectual property and code.
 

Dipso

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gchriste said:
Okay, some things really need to be cleared up here, as it seems 99% of you have absolutely no idea how software licensing works.

FACTS:

1) When you *purchase* a game, you are only purchasing the physical media, be it a disc, Cd etc, and a *licence* to use the game.

2) This applies for every piece of software in existance, even open source and freeware. Why, becauase unless you are actually buying a development license to the code, you will never own the code, which is the actual game.

So here is how it works with ALL software made. The developer makes the software. The offer end users a license to use the software, being the compiled code. you, the end user accept that license and the conditions that go with it and use the program.

This is no different to any other program. I challenge you to find one software licence agreement fro a retail product that says you own the *actual* game. You own squat, only the disks, manual and licence card or whatever, everything else is licenced.

Now usually the license conditions will stipulate the terms of the license. Some are for a set period, maybe a year. After that you need to renew. Some may be for ever. Most are *limited*. That means you can not copy them, save maybe a backup, sell it, reverse engineer it etc etc.

Most have clauses that the publisher can terminate the agreement under certain conditions, and this is what valve use. furthermore valve state that they can disable your account and thus the other *licenses* you have. Remember you do not own the actual game.

So please, all of you talking about comparing it to someone coming in and stealing your other CDs because you pirated one etc, use the facts. In *fact* as others have stated music and videos are exactly the same. You do not own *the song*, they are jsut granting you a right to listen to it. So if some music company wanted to, they could probably do the same as valve.

This is the way it has been for the past 20 odd years of software development at least folks. Get used to it and please use the facts, not fear mongering.
Yes, i understand this, what i am saying though is, is this right?
And up until now it has been up to the courts and law enforcement agencies to enforce this laws, we are now seeing a trend where corporations are taking the law into their own hands.

This is a kind of vigilanteism that i find desturbing, because quite francly i dont want the likes of bill gates and whatnot to tell me whats right and wrong.

There is also the difference between what the licence says and what actual rights/freedoms you have. Because what ever the licence says, say it says (silly i know) you cant install this program if you are a norwegian with black hair, Now i am a black haired norwegian, but i could still install the software. Now however they do have a way of enforcing thiece licences.

Also as debated several times before, there is still an ongoing issue of how viable thieses EULA's are.

With the size of the microsoft licence for instance there could be a clause in there that said you had to kill your self, but i dont think you would.
 

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The fact of the matter is, this trend taken into the extreeme would allow the software developers to define their own laws.

I think the authoreties need to look at this and define very clear guidelines protecting the rights of the consumers BEFORE, this gets out of hand.

The problem right now is that technology is evolving at a faster rate than it can be dealt with by the authorities, atleast if they continue to ignore the issues, and support the corporate and finance side of thiese issues alone.
 

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Dipso said:
The fact of the matter is, this trend taken into the extreeme would allow the software developers to define their own laws.

I think the authoreties need to look at this and define very clear guidelines protecting the rights of the consumers BEFORE, this gets out of hand.
What I think needs to be nuderstood and agreed in the software community is where the line is drawn. I believe it is okay for the development company to impose restrictions on your use of the license, that is such as how many copies, what you can run it on etc.

I guess where the grey area is at the moment is over their ability to revoke your license or as happened here, revoke other licenses.

What seems to actually have been missed is this:

Some people, myself included, bought HL1 in the days well before steam. That license had no mention of steam, disabling accounts etc etc. So when it is moved into steam as a result of installing steam, and possible deactivated because of a breach of license for another game, the original license had no mention of this.

For those who this may have happended to, yes you may have a case for valve to answerr, and someone with access to a good legal service could rightly pursue it. For recent purchase through steam, such as CZ, is it a blury line.

I am a product manager at a software company as a matter of disclosure, so you can see my interest. But I do agree that there will be boundaries to be defined in what can be done.
 

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gchriste said:
What I think needs to be nuderstood and agreed in the software community is where the line is drawn. I believe it is okay for the development company to impose restrictions on your use of the license, that is such as how many copies, what you can run it on etc.

I guess where the grey area is at the moment is over their ability to revoke your license or as happened here, revoke other licenses.

What seems to actually have been missed is this:

Some people, myself included, bought HL1 in the days well before steam. That license had no mention of steam, disabling accounts etc etc. So when it is moved into steam as a result of installing steam, and possible deactivated because of a breach of license for another game, the original license had no mention of this.

For those who this may have happended to, yes you may have a case for valve to answerr, and someone with access to a good legal service could rightly pursue it. For recent purchase through steam, such as CZ, is it a blury line.

I am a product manager at a software company as a matter of disclosure, so you can see my interest. But I do agree that there will be boundaries to be defined in what can be done.
Ah finaly, thanks for understanding :)

But thieses boundaries, need to be enforced by law and held as basic consumer rights.

We as consumers need strong laws to protect us from being, (sorry for the bad language) a$$raped.

Because at this points its not the developers that are at risk but the consumers.
 

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First, Valve did not put out any kind of fake key or fake warez or hack instructions to trap people. The hack came from the "community" as do they all. Second, the number of people who actually had bought HL2 and used the CD key cheat was VERY small. VERY small. Most people just tried to rip off the game and not bother buying it.
But there were some who did legally purchase the game and decide to use the CD key cheat, correct? And assuming Valve does not want a bad reputation as a company, they should acknowledge those legal users. Or get sued.

The excessive activation of this product would drive any high-school grad or higher intelligence level to really question the whole activation scheme, and wether it is preventing, or encouraging, these kinds of cracks.
 

DeVry Student

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CrazyHarij said:
Pwned, bitches. :D
Just wait 'til you find out Steam is just a first step in a plan that will charge HL2 and other Steam game buyers/owners a monthly service charge for A) accessing game servers and B) using Steampowered games.
 
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guys, you do realise that steam isnt "THE WAVE OF TEH FUTAR", they will be the only company with the type of system.
 

DeVry Student

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electronic squid said:
guys, you do realise that steam isnt "THE WAVE OF TEH FUTAR", they will be the only company with the type of system.
Actually, Steam is not the first to do this, either. Sony did this with Everquest - charging users $9.99/month to play their games. Steam will likely charge somthing like that, or up to $19.99/month from what I have heard - for accessing Steam.
 
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