Top Secret Stuff :)

BlueWolf72

Tank
Joined
Sep 4, 2004
Messages
1,340
Reaction score
0
Hidden in the latest SDK of Team Fortress 2 is this image of 3 tuxedo jackets wrapped with a flame icon. Could this be a future in-game item to help a Spy not be caught with the ever so annoying (W+MOUSE1) Spy Check? Or is this an unfair item that could essentially ruin an Engineer’s day?

 

Sheepo

The Freeman
Joined
Apr 9, 2007
Messages
10,578
Reaction score
79
I think it's funny that people still seem to think this W+M1 Pyro thing is real.
 

Darkside55

The Freeman
Joined
Jun 12, 2009
Messages
12,089
Reaction score
90
We knew about the fireproof suit a long time ago. A real long time ago. It's still stupid.

Sheepo said:
I think it's funny that people still seem to think this W+M1 Pyro thing is real.
Haha, I see you don't play pyro. Or you're bad at it. You need more w+m1.
 

DEATHMASTER

The Freeman
Joined
Aug 3, 2005
Messages
12,759
Reaction score
151
Maybe its just for the dead ringer, though I don't see how they couldn't've just fixed that through a normal update.
 

Stigmata

The Freeman
Joined
Jun 2, 2003
Messages
15,911
Reaction score
371
I think it's the beginning of a long string of changes to more harshly define the role of each class.
 
Joined
May 22, 2003
Messages
3,290
Reaction score
1
it probably won't make the spy completely fireproof just resistant...here's some ideas as to how they could make it work.

all suggestions should be seen as and/or...mix and match for your choosing

Gentlemen! we have a new shipment of spy garment specifically designed to deal with our most annoying enemy...tired of having your plan/disguise/suit/day ruined by those pesky fire spewing pyros well this line of fashion is just you! while this new fire resistant suit deals with this problem...there are however some drawbacks, the new fibers used for these suits are stiffer and heavier than those of the regular suit...so it's more uncomfortable and you might feel a slight hindrance to your mobility/dexterity(some reports even suggest some interference with healing rates).

pros:

1) 50% fire resistance(damage reduction)

2) fire resistant ...it takes longer for for the spy to catch fire e.g. the pyro needs to keep the flame on the spy for longer before he ignites to prevent random lucky ignitions(particularly as cloaked spy) 2 shots from the flare-gun required.

3)fire immunity while cloaked...the spy is unable to catch fire while cloaked...won't put out fire if you cloak after the fact though.

4) fire retardant... reduces burn time.

cons:

1) reduced movement speed

2) takes longer to cloak and/or disguise

3) cloak meter drains faster

4) slight increase in damage from "bullet type" weapons

5) slower healing rate(medic/dispenser)

6) replaces revolver

7) replaces watch(obviously won't work with pro nr.3 or con nr. 6 duh!)
 

Sheepo

The Freeman
Joined
Apr 9, 2007
Messages
10,578
Reaction score
79
Haha, I see you don't play pyro. Or you're bad at it. You need more w+m1.
Play Pyro. Run across the map. Hold down Mouse 1. You will die.

He's probably just a pyro player who likes to think his class takes more skill.
I got 4 kills yesterday without switching to flamethrower. It's still not my primary class though.
 

Adabiviak

Space Core
Joined
Nov 28, 2004
Messages
4,235
Reaction score
22
They shouldn't make the spy fireproof, or even fire retardant, but allowing the spy under the dead ringer to not burn when invisible would be a nice addition. When cloaked with the other watches, the spy should be flammable, but when 'killed' with the dead ringer, you should have at least a few moments (say two full seconds) to get away from the pyro before you're flammable.
 

Dinnesch

Space Core
Joined
Jan 31, 2009
Messages
1,285
Reaction score
6
They shouldn't make the spy fireproof, or even fire retardant, but allowing the spy under the dead ringer to not burn when invisible would be a nice addition.
The dead ringer already puts out the fire when cloaking, but when the cloak is already activated and a Pyro burns you you'll still burn.
 

Darkside55

The Freeman
Joined
Jun 12, 2009
Messages
12,089
Reaction score
90
ideas as to how they could make it work


1) 50% fire resistance(damage reduction)

2) fire resistant ...it takes longer for for the spy to catch fire e.g. the pyro needs to keep the flame on the spy for longer before he ignites

6) replaces revolver
First beta was 90% damage resistance, beta 2 was "wearer cannot ignite." And it was in the revolver slot.





Play Pyro. Run across the map. Hold down Mouse 1. You will die.
Stop sucking, please.
 

DEATHMASTER

The Freeman
Joined
Aug 3, 2005
Messages
12,759
Reaction score
151
Maybe it could make sense if you can burn (less) but not ignite, like other pyros do to each other.
 

Adabiviak

Space Core
Joined
Nov 28, 2004
Messages
4,235
Reaction score
22
The dead ringer already puts out the fire when cloaking, but when the cloak is already activated and a Pyro burns you you'll still burn.
...but your flaming body is still visible, no? If I roast a spy, you can tell when they have the dead ringer because their flaming body will be scurrying off in the other direction. There has to be a time delay, right? Since once the spy is in range of your flamethrower, the only way they would get away is if you turned it off immediately after the body dropped?
 

Eejit

The Freeman
Joined
May 19, 2004
Messages
13,514
Reaction score
216
w+m1 is for those who like the backburner.
 

Shem

The Freeman
Joined
Jul 5, 2009
Messages
1,965
Reaction score
183
I actually think the Pyro is hard to play since you have to quickly get close to your target before you can start burning them. If you're trying to inflict damage upon a Soldier, you'd have to dodge incoming rockets that can easily decrease your health before you even get to him, and even if you do, the Soldier can just pull out his shotgun and blast you away. This is why the compression blast for the normal flamethrower comes in handy, but if you've got a Backburner, you don't stand a chance. And anyways, you have to get the right timing to deflect the rockets back at your attacker, which is difficult if they shoot at your feet.
 

Darkside55

The Freeman
Joined
Jun 12, 2009
Messages
12,089
Reaction score
90
Pyro is hard to play since you have to quickly get close to your target before you can start burning them.

And anyways, you have to get the right timing to deflect the rockets back at your attacker, which is difficult if they shoot at your feet.
Hold W

jump

M2

upon descent M1


Airblast jump, people. Airblast and W+M1.
 

Sheepo

The Freeman
Joined
Apr 9, 2007
Messages
10,578
Reaction score
79
This is idiotic:

A) It does not include any other strategy with any other weapon that when used does cause you to be much more effective.

B) There's nothing stupid or simple about the Pyro's tactics, you're just breaking it down into input to make it sound that way. If you broke a different class down that way it sounds exactly the same.

C) That is edited footage of some lucky runs against unskilled players. The Pyro has to be RIGHT IN YOUR FACE to burn you. Without some very good methods of getting to your enemy without being shot to death, you can't be an effective Pyro.
 

Darkside55

The Freeman
Joined
Jun 12, 2009
Messages
12,089
Reaction score
90
It does not include any other strategy with any other weapon that when used does cause you to be much more effective.
Herp, obviously if you use another weapon in conjunction you're going to be more effective. Nobody has been saying that your effectiveness is reduced or on the same level if you combine other weapons and tactics with W+M1. This entire argument has been about whether W+M1 is a viable tactic, which it is.

There's nothing stupid or simple about the Pyro's tactics, you're just breaking it down into input to make it sound that way. If you broke a different class down that way it sounds exactly the same.
You're half-right: yes, if you broke a different class down they would mostly sound the same way. However, this is because they ARE stupid and simple. Medic? W+M1. Heavy? W+M1. Scout? W. They don't even NEED M1.

This is because TF2, on the whole, is fucking easymode. Anyone who disagrees with this either feels as if this is such a negative strike against the game that they have to refute it, or they're too caught up in their own ego and refuse to believe that the shit they do in TF2 is easy as fuck.

That is edited footage of some lucky runs against unskilled players. The Pyro has to be RIGHT IN YOUR FACE to burn you. Without some very good methods of getting to your enemy without being shot to death, you can't be an effective Pyro.
I like this quote the most, because there's just so much to pick apart here.

First, you're going by the assumption that the footage presented is edited. Despite the fact that the "Meet the Pyro" author stated that the footage wasn't cherry-picked, even if one were to assume that it was edited for the best moments displaying W+M1 it still shows that the tactic is effective.

Second, you assume that it is the players those people are up against that are "unskilled," and that the authors are "lucky." Laughable double standard, because obviously W+M1 SIMPLY CANNOT WORK AGAINST ANYONE EVEN REMOTELY GOOD, EVER--according to you--that the only explanation is everyone else in the server is bad, and the people recording have been blessed with impeccable timing and the kiss of Fate herself.

Third, you state that the pyro needs to be right in your face to burn you. You are an idiot. Pyro's flames have a boxsize of 12 and can have a range of up to 480 units while the flame graphics extend to only 290 units; max damage falloff ends at 360 units.

Fourth, with regard to "getting to your enemy without being shot," you're severely underestimating pyro's speed, the advantage of terrain, and the aforementioned airblast jump. Pyro's got 100% speed--this makes him the third fastest class in the game.



tl;dr Stop sucking.
 

Sheepo

The Freeman
Joined
Apr 9, 2007
Messages
10,578
Reaction score
79
I think your acknowledgement that Pyro is no more simple and stupid than any other TF2 class is enough for me, that's really my point to begin with. All your other points are fairly valid. Though I still think it's funny that you seem to think it's difficult to shoot a Pyro to death as HE RUNS ACROSS OPEN TERRAIN DIRECTLY TOWARDS YOU.
 

Darkside55

The Freeman
Joined
Jun 12, 2009
Messages
12,089
Reaction score
90
I still think it's funny that you seem to think it's difficult to shoot a Pyro to death as HE RUNS ACROSS OPEN TERRAIN DIRECTLY TOWARDS YOU.
Oh, I never said it was. ;) Really, go back and read what I said. Using W+M1 isn't just for charging across wide open areas, you know.

MM said:
What was this thread about again?
Spy's stupid fireproof suit that we've known about for a really long time.
 

Stigmata

The Freeman
Joined
Jun 2, 2003
Messages
15,911
Reaction score
371
Soon the Pyro won't be a hard counter to the Spy. That's all I've got so far from this thread.
 

Sheepo

The Freeman
Joined
Apr 9, 2007
Messages
10,578
Reaction score
79
Oh, I never said it was. ;) Really, go back and read what I said. Using W+M1 isn't just for charging across wide open areas, you know.
Well that's the impression I got from that video demonstrating how effective W+M1 is in which SKILLED players seem completely unable to figure out how to shoot at the Pyro charging directly at them. :p
 

Darkside55

The Freeman
Joined
Jun 12, 2009
Messages
12,089
Reaction score
90
Well, when you're already in someone's face there's not much they can do. W+M1 can get you up to your opponent; once you're already there it's over. W+M1 is all you need, but that doesn't necessarily mean "use it to charge everywhere."

But you can. :p
 

Shem

The Freeman
Joined
Jul 5, 2009
Messages
1,965
Reaction score
183
Hold W

jump

M2

upon descent M1


Airblast jump, people. Airblast and W+M1.
When you put it like that, of course it sounds simple, but if I were to use this method in an actual environment against real players, I might have a problem. You see, there's so many factors that can affect the outcome of any battle in Team Fortress 2. You could suddenly become flanked by another enemy or your original opponent will get a lucky crit and utterly destroy you before you have the chance to get to him. TF2 isn't really that easy when these types of things occur, but if you're saying overall, then yes, it's quite easy.
 

Sheepo

The Freeman
Joined
Apr 9, 2007
Messages
10,578
Reaction score
79
Well, when you're already in someone's face there's not much they can do. W+M1 can get you up to your opponent; once you're already there it's over. W+M1 is all you need, but that doesn't necessarily mean "use it to charge everywhere."

But you can. :p
It appears we have different definitions of IN YOUR FACE.
 

Danimal

Companion Cube
Joined
Aug 21, 2004
Messages
11,736
Reaction score
22
Darkside took on two d00ds at once, d00d.
 

Darkside55

The Freeman
Joined
Jun 12, 2009
Messages
12,089
Reaction score
90
When you put it like that, of course it sounds simple, but if I were to use this method in an actual environment against real players, I might have a problem. You see, there's so many factors that can affect the outcome of any battle in Team Fortress 2.
True, but the variables that affect it aren't many. In fact in most cases of pyro vs. soldier, even in a crowded battlefield, using airblast jump is not only the best way to clear distance to your target, but also for outdistancing other enemies. Of course you're right that if the rocket you're trying to jump is a crit then you're boned, but...I would trust most people can recognize the glowing trail of a crit before attempting to leap one.

The biggest gamble with the airblast jump now isn't crits, though--it's the Direct Hit.
It appears we have different definitions of IN YOUR FACE.
In this case, when I say "in your face," I'm talking about within about 300 units. If you're at least that close, holding down W, flamethrower spewing, to your opponent who's ignited you're going to seem "in their face." You don't literally have to be pushing up against someone as pyro to intimidate the hell out of them and make them feel more closed in than they really are.
 

Sheepo

The Freeman
Joined
Apr 9, 2007
Messages
10,578
Reaction score
79
Well I was talking about the video, which just had a bunch of people just backpedaling away from the Pyro with a pretty large buffer still between them.
 
Top