The New "unlock" system

Sheepo

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Played for an hour and got a second BONK. Not a fan.
 

Eejit

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Yeah that's horrible, in half an hour on an achievement farming server you could have gotten first milestone at least. Clearly Valve weren't thinking when they nerfed farming!
 

Sheepo

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I suppose you're being insincere, but what you said sounds entirely logical to me.

...

Also, since I suppose you're making a "ACHIEVEMENT FARMERS R GAAAY!" argument, I did obtain 7 Spy achievements without even looking to see what any of them were.
 

Jintor

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Yeah, these achievements are great. I find myself getting them all the time by accident. THE BEST KIND OF ACHIEVEMENTS
 

undertone

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There HAS to be a better way to unlock weapons.

Linking them to achievements didn't work because it was too easy to abuse, or scared players away, now this system straight up fails. Random unlocks based on time invested? It sounds very MMORPG to me.

I think something along the lines of a single achievement linked to each weapon would be better. Something related to the weapon's use. Something that players would be doing anyways while playing that class, but wont be like grinding.
 

Absinthe

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Jesus Christ just unlock the weapons according to points or some shit. Tying them to achievements failed because it detracted from the gameplay, but opting for randomness isn't satisfactory either. Hopefully this inventory stuff will improve because right now it just comes off as very beta-ish. If we're only going to have it for duplicate weapons and funny hats, don't bother.
 

Eejit

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So it's bad that you can unlock any weapon while just playing normally and not even worrying about it? Well I guess the instant-fulfillment grinders might want to throw their toys out of the pram, but it's an improvement for anyone who got them the way Valve intended in the old system.
 

AJ Rimmer

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Why not make the unlocks available based on a point system that also encourages people to play the game? Like scoring points in the game by capturing CPs, taking the intel or just racking up kills? I'm no grinder, but I like to be rewarded for accomplishments, not just participating, and achievements that serve no purpose bug me a lot more than achievement servers. Also, I still haven't gotten anything.
 

Eejit

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Why not make the unlocks available based on a point system that also encourages people to play the game? Like scoring points in the game by capturing CPs, taking the intel or just racking up kills? I'm no grinder, but I like to be rewarded for accomplishments, not just participating, and achievements that serve no purpose bug me a lot more than achievement servers. Also, I still haven't gotten anything.
That would still encourage grinding, just a different form. You'd get maps with cps all over the place, instant spawn perma crit etc. to rack up the points.
 

Hectic Glenn

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Points based systems based on cp points / intel / kills would be grindable too. Those crazy servers can create two CTF points right next to each other. Two CP points next to each other etc. Doesn't remove the grinding problem.

Achievements = points would result in the same. People would grind achievements. I can't think of an alternative, Valve obviously couldn't either. To take that control away...random seems to be the key?
 

Shakermaker

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I don't get why Valve made a combination of both scored points and achievements. A bit like the BF2 ranking system. You had to have a certain score to unlock weapons, and at a higher level also scored achievements (or 'medals'). The best of both worlds.

I have to admit though I like the random drops. Might be Skinner mechanics at work but still ...
 

nurizeko

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Just like your sex life Alex :D




/me runs like a bitch

I'll think you'll find sir that accusing people of less then satisfactory sex lives and relationships is my department.

Apparently.




As for the new system, its shit, plain and simple, if I wanted to play the lottery I'de go play that, at least the random pay-off is better then a weapon you already have.



And as for achievement based unlocks...get this....I liked that.

Contrary to what some at Valve might think the majority of players preferred being able to work towards their unlocks. As for achievement servers, boohoo, never had a problem with them. Same goes for the short class whoring phase, oh no, something interesting!.
 

Shakermaker

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Contrary to what some at Valve might think the majority of players preferred being able to work towards their unlocks. As for achievement servers, boohoo, never had a problem with them. Same goes for the short class whoring phase, oh no, something interesting!.
Says who? Let's do a poll!
 
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I'll think you'll find sir that accusing people of less then satisfactory sex lives and relationships is my department.

Apparently.




As for the new system, its shit, plain and simple, if I wanted to play the lottery I'de go play that, at least the random pay-off is better then a weapon you already have.



And as for achievement based unlocks...get this....I liked that.

Contrary to what some at Valve might think the majority of players preferred being able to work towards their unlocks. As for achievement servers, boohoo, never had a problem with them. Same goes for the short class whoring phase, oh no, something interesting!.
This, all day long.

I'm finding this is the general opinion in the servers also, you always get the odd "i think it's good" person, but only one in every 10 or less.
 

Eejit

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Yeah most people are impatient, who cares?
 

Sheepo

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So it's... bad to be impatient? I really don't see your point Eejit.
 

Eejit

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People whining because they can't get what they want when they want it is irrelevant is my point. They're not objecting to any real flaw in the system most of the time, they're just whining because they don't get instant gratification.
So despite the whines there's nothing wrong with random unlocking, bar a few bugs to be ironed out.
 
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I think the current system is a good start, but it still needs a lot of work. For example why doesn't it check if i already have the said unlock before giving it to me again. So far i haven't got a single new unlock. I played for 2 hours and got my first pick up which was the Backburner which i already had and was using so pointless, then someone joined and got the Jarate in 2 minutes. What's the point of having duplicate unlocks? Unless Valve make it so we can trade them or duel wield them it's a pointless feature.
 

Eejit

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They have said we will be able to trade them in an upcoming patch Pimpin.
 
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Ah, in that case then is does make a lot of sense. I supposed once they implement that it'll make it a lot fairer.
 

Absinthe

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How about...

I am fully supportive of the idea of earning unlocks through some fashion as opposed to stupid randomness. The randomness is the flaw, especially when most of the time it's just dumping duplicates into my inventory. What's that for again? Trading or some shit? Totally not necessary.

Freakin' loot drops are not appropriate in a game like TF2 IMO. So what if unlocking them through points could still be grinded out on a custom map? You and I don't have to play on one, such servers aren't game-breaking. I also don't understand this "YAY now I can get weapons without playing the class!" mentality which just strikes me as... strange. I mean, every class in the game is easy to play and there's something fun in all of them. If you can't take an hour or two of play time and put it towards a specific class, then what the **** is wrong with you.

Alternatively, there is a simpler method I can agree to: Just make all the items accessible from the get-go. Valve is making this more complicated than it needs to be with all this inventory shit.
 

ríomhaire

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Perhaps you could have a system where, while playing as a class you have a chance of getting one of that class' weapons when you capture/defend a point/intel or dominate someone on a Valve map.
 
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Perhaps you could have a system where, while playing as a class you have a chance of getting one of that class' weapons when you capture/defend a point/intel or dominate someone on a Valve map.
I like this idea.
This idea i like.

It'd keep things from just achievement grinding, and actually encourage playing normally with a specific class rather than waiting several hours.
 

Seagull

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played for 10-12 hours now

found 1 item

im guessing this system is broken and they'll change it after the free weekend is up
 

nurizeko

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How about...

I am fully supportive of the idea of earning unlocks through some fashion as opposed to stupid randomness. The randomness is the flaw, especially when most of the time it's just dumping duplicates into my inventory. What's that for again? Trading or some shit? Totally not necessary.

Freakin' loot drops are not appropriate in a game like TF2 IMO. So what if unlocking them through points could still be grinded out on a custom map? You and I don't have to play on one, such servers aren't game-breaking. I also don't understand this "YAY now I can get weapons without playing the class!" mentality which just strikes me as... strange. I mean, every class in the game is easy to play and there's something fun in all of them. If you can't take an hour or two of play time and put it towards a specific class, then what the **** is wrong with you.

Alternatively, there is a simpler method I can agree to: Just make all the items accessible from the get-go. Valve is making this more complicated than it needs to be with all this inventory shit.
This.


Edit: Also the Pyro hat should have been a fireman's helmet.

The spinny top hat is just dumb.
 

Boddah

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Ive played for something about ten hours and havent got anything. Then I found out about that idle map, so I tried that while sleeping. After seven hours I came back and guess what. Nothing. Not even a stupid backburner or something else I already have, nothing.
So yea, I kinda miss Milestones...
 

Lyric Zulu

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I don't mind the new system, then again I've found like 6 things already. I understand what Valve was trying to do though, they wanted to avoid people having to grind classes to earn new items. Even though some people consider this "working for the unlocks" it requires to much time IMO.

I do agree that the system needs some tweaking though but since people don't understand how it works yet, I think they should stop complaining about it and go play some more TF2.
 

Xevrex

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I hypothesize that if one spends more time playing a specific class, the more likely they are to find weapons for said class.

Also, I think maybe it is possible that acquiring achievements for classes may reduce the time until one gets an item?

So far, I've been heavily playing Pyro (not for the weapons, but because I love the class) and I received the Flare Gun just as I had gotten Pyro Milestone 1 (coincidence?) and a few more achievements later, found the Axtinguisher; as you can see, both are weapons for the Pyro.
 

DarkSin

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I normally play spy/engineer/pyro and I have received 2 heavy items, 1 medic item, and 1 pyro item. It looks to be completely random.
 

Sheepo

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People whining because they can't get what they want when they want it is irrelevant is my point. They're not objecting to any real flaw in the system most of the time, they're just whining because they don't get instant gratification.
So despite the whines there's nothing wrong with random unlocking, bar a few bugs to be ironed out.
Yes, widespread annoyance and dislike of the system is clearly not an indication of anything. The flaw in the system is that this is random to a point of ridiculousness. People who have been playing since the update came out have recieved nothing, or may have recieved several of something they already own (a tradng system is great, but how about you implement it before you make it necessary), and some randomly get all of the new unlocks within an hour of playing the first time. If you hype us for a week about all these crazy awesome unlocks and then give us a system where we have almost no control if we recieve them, that's stupid.
 

Eejit

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The only morality in a cruel world is chance. Unbiased, unprejudiced, fair.
 

MJ12

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The new system sucks, everyone knows it.
 

Lyric Zulu

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So far, I've been heavily playing Pyro (not for the weapons, but because I love the class) and I received the Flare Gun just as I had gotten Pyro Milestone 1 (coincidence?) and a few more achievements later, found the Axtinguisher; as you can see, both are weapons for the Pyro.
It is still possible to unlock new weapons from milestones as well as finding them. Its just that spies and snipers don't have milestones.
 
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I'm getting slightly fed up now, been playing for 4 hours and i've only got 1 unlock and a repeat one at that. How random are they as it seems like everyone has them.
 

Lyric Zulu

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I'm getting slightly fed up now, been playing for 4 hours and i've only got 1 unlock and a repeat one at that. How random are they as it seems like everyone has them.
According to Valve, they take your average play time so that they can give you the chance to get an item. Basically, every X amount of time, you get a Y% chance of finding a new weapon.
 

OmegaX

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Just for "testing" purposed I set in an achievement_idle map for about an hour and got 1 Blutsaugher, which I already had. Looks like its going to take some time to get anything worth while, unless I'm completely lucky. I honestly don't care about the new system as I tend to use the basic weapons most of the time anyways. If something new comes along I'll try it out, but it doesn't really bother me.
 
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