obama admin iracy crackdown

Ridge

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Thieving is stealing the item
Pirating is making a copy of the item for yourself

As for these collection calls. Who gets the money? The lawyers, not the groups who's work is being stolen.
 

YROC

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This is the part where I went "ujustwentfullretard".

It also implements an interesting provision called "imminent infringement", which allows the government to charge people who they think might be about to infringe with a civil offense (for example if you searched "torrent daft punk"). This is among the first official "thought crime" provisions to be proposed by the U.S. government. The bill also makes it a criminal offense to bypass DRM.
What if someone was doing a report on piracy or something and they happened to search that up? Also, I don't even give a damn. Pirate all day erryday.
 

Ridge

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This is the part where I went "ujustwentfullretard".

What if someone was doing a report on piracy or something and they happened to search that up? Also, I don't even give a damn. Pirate all day erryday.
Didnt Tom Cruise do a movie about this? PreCrime division?

 

Vegeta897

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I do think people should be arrested for searching "torrent daft punk" though.
 

YROC

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>see faint trollface in background
>take image less seriously

I haven't watched a dvd in years.
 

Warped

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I'm curious when they try to get rid of streaming websites. downloading is one thing, streaming is another
 

No Limit

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You guys are funny when you actually pretend that downloading music, software, and movies illegally isn't stealing.

The property doesn't belong to you yet you take it without paying for it. How in the world is that not stealing?
 

Vegeta897

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If I went and saved a copy (.jpg) of someone's digital art for my own viewing pleasure, would that be stealing?
 

15357

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Was it for sale?


In the end, we pirate instead of steal, because pirating is way easier than getting off your ass and actually going out to loot something. And then we pretend it's awesome. Still, I'm not saying that I don't pirate. I just don't pretend that its the right thing to do.
 

No Limit

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If I went and saved a copy (.jpg) of someone's digital art for my own viewing pleasure, would that be stealing?
If the author of the image put it out for everyone to see no, you would not be stealing as long as you saved it for personal use. If that image was on a porn site which you have to pay for but instead you saved it off a torrent site then yes, that would be stealing.

Same goes with music. When you buy a CD and save a copy for your personal use you are not stealing. When you don't buy the CD and instead download it off the internet then yes, you are stealing.

Not that complicated.
 

Jintor

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It's not stealing... it's more akin to counterfeiting.
 

No Limit

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It's not stealing... it's more akin to counterfeiting.
You are taking someone's property without permission, I think that's the very definition of stealing. Counterfeiting would be when you then try to resell what you just stole.
 

Lucid

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It is stealing.
You're not paying for things that are meant to be purchased.

Justifying piracy is so silly.

Also, that DVD picture must be ancient as I haven't bought a DVD in atleast 3 years that didn't let me skip all those trailers and the outro stuff is never that bad enough to make me rage.
You people are just impatient.
 

15357

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Yeah. You know why I pirate some stuff? Because I can't be assed to get to a DVD store.


People pirate because it's just so easy to do. I mean, you just type a few words, click, and 5 minutes later, you've just downloaded 1.5GB of movie delight. At least I don't justify it as not wanting to see trailers and shit.
 

PvtRyan

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You are taking someone's property without permission, I think that's the very definition of stealing. Counterfeiting would be when you then try to resell what you just stole.
But you're not taking it. Nothing is taken. You just have an unauthorized copy of something.

I don't have much of a moral aversion to piracy. I download nearly all movies I watch, if I like it, I generally buy it (and yes, I do genuinely buy them) and otherwise I don't. I've watched more movies than I've bought, but then again, hadn't I downloaded them, I wouldn't have seen or bought any. In truth, my piracy benefited the movie industry.

When I do buy DVDs, they generally disappear into my closet unopened, because I really hate optical media and much prefer a file on my PC.

If services like Netflix and the Zune Pass were available here, most of my stuff would be legal. It's the industry that is at fault here for being so slow and, in the case of music, an entirely redundant layer between the artist and the consumer.
 

No Limit

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The RIAA disagrees with you.
Didn' they lose that lawsuit?

On edit, this is what the RIAA now says on their site:

http://www.riaa.com/physicalpiracy.php?content_selector=piracy_online_the_law

You make an MP3 copy of a song because the CD you bought expressly permits you to do so. But then you put your MP3 copy on the Internet, using a file-sharing network, so that millions of other people can download it.
So yes, if you buy a CD you can make a copy of it as long as you don't distribute it.

But you're not taking it. Nothing is taken. You just have an unauthorized copy of something.

I don't have much of a moral aversion to piracy. I download nearly all movies I watch, if I like it, I generally buy it (and yes, I do genuinely buy them) and otherwise I don't. I've watched more movies than I've bought, but then again, hadn't I downloaded them, I wouldn't have seen or bought any. In truth, my piracy benefited the movie industry.
Yes, you are taking it. "It" being intellectual property that doesn't belong to you. If you want to call it an unauthorized copy instead you can, but it's still stealing.

And I just have such a hard time believing that people that download stuff illegally then run to the store to purchase a legal copy if they like it. If you truly do this (I honestly don't believe you) you are a rare exception. So to say that the music and movie industry actually benefits from piracy is absolutely absurd.

And that's nice that you justify it by stealing only the things you don't like.

The amount of denial you people are in is amazing. And I download shit all the time, I just don't lie to myself as I do it.
 

Matorbogl

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I get the impression from the hyperbole used to describe piracy that it is a vastly more important issue to the Obama administration than say helping the uninsured or curbing the outrageous practices of large banks.

Who knows though maybe this anti-piracy proposal will be as watered down and worthless as just about everything this congress and president have done so far.
 

Yuri

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I don't think that digital piracy can be equivalent to physical theft, yet it is still a crime. Theft implies that the owner has lost something of worth, as well as a potential product. Digital pirating does not take the original product from the owner, yet they still lose out on profits by potential customers.

But what really bothers me about digital piracy is the tyrannical approach for justice by governments. Even if it is equivalent to the theft of something physical, it does not condone completely ridiculous legal action meant to "set an example" out of the tiny few they are able to prosecute. The thought to justify this is rather alarming.

And now developers of peer to peer software will be prosecuted for their software's potential uses, and people can be prosecuted for search engine results? I'm not sure how much I trust the sensationalist article, but I also wouldn't be surprised.

I get the impression from the hyperbole used to describe piracy that it is a vastly more important issue to the Obama administration than say helping the uninsured or curbing the outrageous practices of large banks.

Who knows though maybe this anti-piracy proposal will be as watered down and worthless as just about everything this congress and president have done so far.
Haha.
 

No Limit

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I don't think that digital piracy can be equivalent to physical theft, yet it is still a crime. Theft implies that the owner has lost something of worth, as well as a potential product. Digital pirating does not take the original product from the owner, yet they still lose out on profits by potential customers.
When you download something illegally the owner has lost something of worth. Intellectual property is still property. Software doesn't write itself. Music doesn't record itself. These things cost millions of dollars to make.
 

Yuri

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We agree almost completely in this thread and you still want to argue with me, yeesh.

I am saying there is an inherent difference between someone having something stolen and having something copied. With the latter, you lose intellectual property and potential profit, but with the former, you lose an uncopiable object of value which costed money to make. Yes, it costs money to record music and make movies, but it is an indirect loss of this money rather than direct.

I pirate but I don't pretend it's okay, but saying it is equivalent to breaking windows and stealing jewels is a little absurd to me.
 

Kinslayer

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Piracy is not theft.

Piracy is piracy, which still may be a crime, but they definitely should not be put into the same basket. They're different, and should be treated as such. Basically what Erestheux is saying.

Also, here's some food for thought.

On another note, trying to enforce a thought crime is stupid and a bad road to go down in general, as I'm sure we all agree. Making an entire technology branch useless because of crime is also stupid (torrents).
 

PvtRyan

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Didn' they lose that lawsuit?

On edit, this is what the RIAA now says on their site:

http://www.riaa.com/physicalpiracy.php?content_selector=piracy_online_the_law



So yes, if you buy a CD you can make a copy of it as long as you don't distribute it.



Yes, you are taking it. "It" being intellectual property that doesn't belong to you. If you want to call it an unauthorized copy instead you can, but it's still stealing.

And I just have such a hard time believing that people that download stuff illegally then run to the store to purchase a legal copy if they like it. If you truly do this (I honestly don't believe you) you are a rare exception. So to say that the music and movie industry actually benefits from piracy is absolutely absurd.

And that's nice that you justify it by stealing only the things you don't like.

The amount of denial you people are in is amazing. And I download shit all the time, I just don't lie to myself as I do it.
I don't run to the shop, I buy online in a few clicks. I'll never buy any media from a physical shop again, I'm not an idiot.

And in my case, the industry has definitely benefited from my piracy, as most the stuff I do know, I only know because I pirated it first.
 

No Limit

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We agree almost completely in this thread and you still want to argue with me, yeesh.
I'm just responding to you on the parts I disagree on, is that okay? yeesh

I am saying there is an inherent difference between someone having something stolen and having something copied. With the latter, you lose intellectual property and potential profit, but with the former, you lose an uncopiable object of value which costed money to make. Yes, it costs money to record music and make movies, but it is an indirect loss of this money rather than direct.

I pirate but I don't pretend it's okay, but saying it is equivalent to breaking windows and stealing jewels is a little absurd to me.
I know what you are saying but the point is that they do lose revenue as a result of your actions since something you might have bought you obtained illegally without paying for it. And what you do is amplifed millions of times as most other people do this too. And the result is billions of dollars lost in sales that wouldn't otherwise have been lost. So the loss is direct.
 

Kinslayer

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I know what you are saying but the point is that they do lose revenue as a result of your actions since something you might have bought you obtained illegally without paying for it. And what you do is amplifed millions of times as most other people do this too. And the result is billions of dollars lost in sales that wouldn't otherwise have been lost. So the loss is direct.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2009/apr/21/study-finds-pirates-buy-more-music

http://arstechnica.com/media/news/2009/04/study-pirates-buy-tons-more-music-than-average-folks.ars

http://www.tomsguide.com/us/Pirate-Fileshare-Music-Download-Illegal,news-5001.html

You were saying?
 

Vegeta897

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Someone should post that infographic about music piracy and sales statistics.
 

Yuri

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I'm just responding to you on the parts I disagree on, is that okay? yeesh
NO YOU'RE A POO POO HEAD

I know what you are saying but the point is that they do lose revenue as a result of your actions since something you might have bought you obtained illegally without paying for it. And what you do is amplifed millions of times as most other people do this too. And the result is billions of dollars lost in sales that wouldn't otherwise have been lost. So the loss is direct.
Theft is theft and piracy is piracy, they are two different things that are comparable but are clearly not exactly the same. Piracy causes loss in revenue, but theft causes loss in product AND revenue. The threat of piracy is mostly due to its widespread nature, not the gravity of each individual offense. Yet, pirates are punished tenfold over thieves of similar products.
 

Kinslayer

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hey guys lets completely ignore studies and trade made up shit that supports our point
 

No Limit

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You have studies like this that took a small sample of people then you have actual revenue figures from the recording industry that show they sold 25% less in 2008 than they did in 1999. Did something happen in that 10 year period that made people not like to listen to music? No what happened was napster then everything that followed.

For chart fans this is what 25% looks like:

 

Yuri

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hey guys lets completely ignore studies and trade made up shit that supports our point
Are you talking to me? When I say "threat of piracy" I'm not making anything up, it is the major concern, even if those studies disprove it.
 

No Limit

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Are you talking to me? When I say "threat of piracy" I'm not making anything up, it is the major concern, even if those studies disprove it.
You don't get it bro. People being able to obtain things that cost money for free actually makes them more likely to pay for those things. Some poll that asked people if they download stuff illegally clearly proves that even if that poll didn't actually verify if what the respondents were saying was true.

/sarcasm
 

Ridge

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You have studies like this that took a small sample of people then you have actual revenue figures from the recording industry that show they sold 25% less in 2008 than they did in 1999. Did something happen in that 10 year period that made people not like to listen to music? No what happened was napster then everything that followed.

For chart fans this is what 25% looks like:

Thats a pretty cool little chart. What is the topic of it?
 
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