Just another rant about current-gen games.

Saturos

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I had super-high hopes for Fable 2. I'm about half-way through and I think I'm on the verge of major disappointment once again. It's like Oblivion all over again. Just plain full of game-breaking bugs. Tell me, is it the producers fault or the developers? I mean, why do so many console games have so many bugs these days? It's used to be the only pro for owning a console, not having to worry about patching and all, but that doesn't seem to be the case anymore. I might as well save up for a PC upgrade tbh.

The lamest excuse I've heard was because games have gotten so big and complicated in it's development that glitches and bugs are inevitable. I say that's BS. I've played through many games with tons of content that don't seem to have so many bugs with Mass Effect being one of them. Also, even though I haven't played it yet, I hear word on the street that Fallout 3 suffers from innumerable bugs as well and as always, people blame it on the scope of the game. (which is nothing but excuses)

I think the biggest culprit is that the damn producers bully and pressure devs into releasing games within a certain time frame, and the direct consequence being that a half-baked game is released. If this is the case, then why don't they just boot them out and get their own damn in-house producers? EA games, 2K games, just to name a few, are the biggest offenders.

I'm getting fed up with it all. I mean shit. I have some C++ and Python experience, maybe I should join a dev house and show them HOW THE GAME IS F**KING SUPPOSED TO BE!!! DAMN!!!

Also, if I was a gazillionaire, I'd buy out producers like EA and throw em' to the dogs and invest in more competent administration for the devs.

It's like they don't care about the gamers opinion anymore because they know they are stupid enough these days to eat anything up with big and popular IPs like cotton candy even if it's bug riddled. So long as they get the game out the door in time so they can purchase their next damn summer homes that year.

On a positive note though, I didn't pay for Fable 2. I borrowed it. :|
 

jverne

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IIt's like they don't care about the gamers opinion anymore because they know they are stupid enough these days to eat anything up with big and popular IPs like cotton candy even if it's bug riddled. So long as they get the game out the door in time so they can purchase their next damn summer homes that year.

On a positive note though, I didn't pay for Fable 2. I borrowed it. :|
ZING ZING ZING!!! finally somebody understands what i have been saying for the past 4 years
 

Jintor

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Someone get with me and help me resurrect troika
 
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Since Consoles now have patching capability's devs no longer need to test their games. They are now taking the PC approach in shoving a half finished piece of shit though the door as soon as possible and patching it later. I see bugs in console games that you would never see on the older consoles and it has nothing to do with complexity. Your lucky that Mass Effect was relatively bug free on the 360 on the PC it's a mess. One of you key team mates has a very low res face and one of the planets is completely missing it's lavas textures. How do bugs like that get though testing? The sad thing it's been over a year since Bioware promised a patch and we are still waiting. I wish patching had never been invented.
 

Saturos

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Someone get with me and help me resurrect troika
Hm? Who's that?

EDIT> Oh, nevermind. The original devs for Fallout.

Since Consoles now have patching capability's devs no longer need to test their games. They are now taking the PC approach in shoving a half finished piece of shit though the door as soon as possible and patching it later. I see bugs in console games that you would never see on the older consoles and it has nothing to do with complexity. Your lucky that Mass Effect was relatively bug free on the 360 on the PC it's a mess. One of you key team mates has a very low res face and one of the planets is completely missing it's lavas textures. How do bugs like that get though testing? The sad thing it's been over a year since Bioware promised a patch and we are still waiting. I wish patching had never been invented.
When someone mentioned to me once that consoles are becoming more PC-like, I /facepalmed. Now I'm more inclined to believe that.

There's no reason why a console game should need future patches. It's either just lazy development or greedy ass producers, and I say the industry needs a major overhaul either way. Literally stick an enema right up their you-know-what and wash those greedy, spoiled, capitalistic morons out of office. Then throw them on the street with no clothes on their back or no food to eat.

EDIT> Oh, did I mention take a dump on their reserved grave sites too?

:angry::angry::angry::angry::angry::angry::angry::angry::angry::angry::angry:
 

Jintor

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Hm? Who's that?

EDIT> Oh, nevermind. The original devs for Fallout.
AND Vampire the Masquerade Bloodlines, AND Arcanum.

They'd be RPG legends if they hadn't had woeful scheduling problems and huge bugtesting issues.

Hell, they're RPG legends anyway.
 

kupocake

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Since Consoles now have patching capability's devs no longer need to test their games. They are now taking the PC approach in shoving a half finished piece of shit though the door as soon as possible and patching it later.
If that's the case, why are we talking about a nine month old game with bugs in it?
 

AiM

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It's like they don't care about the gamers opinion anymore because they know they are stupid enough these days to eat anything up with big and popular IPs like cotton candy even if it's bug riddled. So long as they get the game out the door in time so they can purchase their next damn summer homes that year.
It's been a long time since they actually cared, they're a listed company that focuses ontheir bottom line. As long as gamers are willing to settle for mediocrity by buying EA's regurgitated products, it's not likely to change anytime soon.
 

Evo

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I'm not defending developers who release games in such shoddy states, but bear in mind a few things:

- Scope of the game - the bigger the game is and more complicated it is, the more likely it is to be buggy. RPGs are especially culpable due to the number of characters and different quests etc.
- Costs - development costs are rising and so are marketing costs. Often marketing strategies will be planned out way in advance of a games release and to reschedule it to delay the game will cost loads. Also the developers need the money from the release of the game to keep on working.

Bear in mind those things and any other reasons there are.
 

CptStern

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Fable 2 was buggy? that's weird I played the game almost to finsih and I dont remember any bugs
 

Dekstar

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Valve in my opinion have relatively bug free games (excluding CSS). Their release schedule being 'whenever it's done' seems to help that.
And yes I agree with everything said in this thread.
 

Dalamari

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I played Fable 2 through twice, never encountered a single bug, or at least nothing worth noticing.
 

Saturos

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Fable 2 was buggy? that's weird I played the game almost to finsih and I dont remember any bugs
Apparently, there's quite a few. <Link

I've currently stumbled upon the "no furniture" glitch explained here:

Anyone have any problems getting the Bowerstone Furniture Seller to stock items?? I bought a bunch of things from her once and ever since then all she has is some book about "prettying up your place". I let 30 some odd game days go through, checking constantly (this is over the period of a few real days). Finally I just killed her... now I think I'm really screwed.
I haven't stumbled upon anything that renders the game completely unplayable yet, but I've got this anxiety that something really important is going to break anytime, which means I doubt I'll be able to finish now. Leaves a bad taste in my mouth alot like Oblivion did.
Except I played Oblivion on PC.

If that's the case, why are we talking about a nine month old game with bugs in it?
Because not everyone has access to highspeed egro Xbox Live to patch up the game maybe? If these bugs weren't overlooked, there would be no need for patches on a console game in the first place.

I'm not defending developers who release games in such shoddy states, but bear in mind a few things:

- Scope of the game - the bigger the game is and more complicated it is, the more likely it is to be buggy. RPGs are especially culpable due to the number of characters and different quests etc.
- Costs - development costs are rising and so are marketing costs. Often marketing strategies will be planned out way in advance of a games release and to reschedule it to delay the game will cost loads. Also the developers need the money from the release of the game to keep on working.

Bear in mind those things and any other reasons there are.
The whole "scope" thing is moot when there are console games Like GTA IV and San Andreas that don't seem to be as buggy. I will admit thought the complexity of the AI and quests has alot to do with it, but these are still nothing but excuses, and I don't tolerate excuses. Something has to be done.

There is no such thing as 'next-gen'.
Wikipedia begs to differ. "Next-gen" would be the 8th generation of consoles. The PS4, Xbox 720, whatever.

Also, yes RPGS are complicated, and not every single scenario can be accounted for, but at least weed out the easier to hit bugs and "overlook" the more obscure, hard to trigger ones. It's just so blatantly obvious some games aren't finished. Maybe the reason why you guys that played it, but didn't get any bugs is because "you did everything right" without upsetting the code. See how ridiculous this is? Totally defeats the purpose of an open-ended game. (or in Fable 2's case, "semi-open-ended")
 

ailevation

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I havent encountered any major bugs in Fable 2, mostly clipping issues. Well, there's the money glitch, but that's more of a design flaw where because it uses Xbox 360's clock and the ability to manually set the time yourself.
 

BabyHeadCrab

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Familiarity sells franchises, people wanted more Fable. Video games are the biggest for profit media industry in the world. It's not quantum mechanics. If you want innovation try looking at the indie market, if you want bug-free releases wake up from your deep delirious sleep.

The biggest culprit, as you mentioned, is investor pressure and sky rocketing game budgets. There's never been higher pressure to deliver guaranteed money makers.

That being said, I enjoyed Fable II and the few bugs I encountered were far from show stopping.
 

Shakermaker

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Valve in my opinion have relatively bug free games (excluding CSS). Their release schedule being 'whenever it's done' seems to help that.
Don't forget Blizzard. They are even more neurotic in their 'whenever it's done' stance than Valve.
 

PvtRyan

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Don't forget Blizzard. They are even more neurotic in their 'whenever it's done' stance than Valve.
Yet most WoW patches have fairly game-breaking bugs (for some) in them that often need to be hotfixed.

Bugs are completely inevitable and anyone who disagrees doesn't know the first thing about software development or the costs involved with today's games. Although, NASA manages to have some fairly bug free code, but then, one line of NASA code costs several thousand dollars.

Besides, many things you consider sloppy in games now, you simply didn't notice in for example the N64 days since the games were overall a little more rough around the edges and bugs didn't stand out as much as they do in today's high detailed worlds.

I suppose you could have less bugs in games, but then development times would be longer and you'd bitch and moan just as much as you do now.
 

Saturos

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I suppose you could have less bugs in games, but then development times would be longer and you'd bitch and moan just as much as you do now.
I'm actually against noobish fools who complain about long development times. They're one of the main reasons games get rushed out the door unfinished. :p

I'd happily wait another year for Fable 2 tbh if that's how long it took to get things near-perfect and bug-free.

Long development times = better products.

EDIT> I hate capitalism in the video game market tbh.

Familiarity sells franchises, people wanted more Fable. Video games are the biggest for profit media industry in the world. It's not quantum mechanics. If you want innovation try looking at the indie market, if you want bug-free releases wake up from your deep delirious sleep.
NEVAR!!!!! I'll stay deluded and asleep because I like it that way.

The indie market is interesting, though it's not's innovation I'm raging against here. It's the damn glitches and bugs. There's no excuse.

T...H...E...R...E...'...S...N...O...E...X...C...U...S...E

There's no excuse but sorriness and greed.
Having an actual valid excuse in itself is nothing but an excuse and I'm just one intolerant bugger when it comes to excuses.

Heavygames.com is one of my favorite indie sites btw too. Check it out.
It's a shame I've had more fun with home-grown games here than the industries' big-budget cousins these days.
 

VirusType2

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Whats worse is game broken console games before patching was possible.

And all games have bugs, some are just worse than others. It's the nature of the beast. It's even possible that the hardware has the bug.

NES games had bugs and exploits, arcade games did too. There were revisions of arcade games that still had bugs.
 

Saturos

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Whats worse is game broken console games before patching was possible.

And all games have bugs, some are just worse than others. It's the nature of the beast. It's even possible that the hardware has the bug.

NES games had bugs and exploits, arcade games did too. There were revisions of arcade games that still had bugs.
NES games just wouldn't work at all sometimes, or would freeze up during play.

For some reason though, it doesn't bother me with old games. It just seems more obnoxious with modern games. I can't quite put my finger on it.
 

Jintor

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Not a very good example of a bug-free game.
Everything Troika made was hideously buggy, mainly because of production scheduling, and had to be repaired by fans. Nonetheless, they made quality games.
 

Saturos

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Everything Troika made was hideously buggy, mainly because of production scheduling, and had to be repaired by fans. Nonetheless, they made quality games.
I never played Fallout 1 or 2, so does that mean Fallout 3 has a chance with me, or will my anal retentiveness get the best of me anyways because of all the bugs?
 

Darkside55

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Valve in my opinion have relatively bug free games
I can tell you're lying
'cause when you're replying
you stutter, stutter
s-s-stutter, stutter




Don't act like you forgot. As far as I know, it never got fixed. There were a lot of patches and person-to-person solutions, but people still get s-s-s-stutter.
 

jverne

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I can tell you're lying
'cause when you're replying
you stutter, stutter
s-s-stutter, stutter




Don't act like you forgot. As far as I know, it never got fixed. There were a lot of patches and person-to-person solutions, but people still get s-s-s-stutter.
you mean if i install HL2 now on my PC (the same computer i used to play it 5 years ago) it will still stutter? ...****!

do you think it might be different cause i changed the motherboard?
 

Darkside55

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I don't know if they ever fixed it, and I don't know if a new motherboard will help. Try your luck.
 

Warbie

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Don't forget Blizzard. They are even more neurotic in their 'whenever it's done' stance than Valve.
And then there's Nintendo - who are even more critical and anal.

It's a shame that console games are being released with more bugs these days, but they have a long way to go before they get as bad as PC games. I came across one bug in Fable 2 - couldn't talk or interact with anything. Annoying, but fixed with a reboot.
 

Jintor

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I never played Fallout 1 or 2, so does that mean Fallout 3 has a chance with me, or will my anal retentiveness get the best of me anyways because of all the bugs?
Fallout 1 and 2 were developed by Black Isle Studios. Fallout 3 was developed by Bethesda. You probably won't enjoy it, regardless.
 

jimbo118

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Western developers have embraced the 15 year old xbox live 'yay gore, xploshens' retard formula a little too much imo.
 

VirusType2

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Western developers have embraced the 15 year old xbox live 'yay gore, xploshens' retard formula a little too much imo.
lol, ... and Eastern developers? yeah, probably everyone's shit stinks.
 

Asknoone

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I'm actually against noobish fools who complain about long development times. They're one of the main reasons games get rushed out the door unfinished. :p
Actually, they're not. The rantings and ravings of an impatient fanbase with little to no idea of how game development works, do not have a significant impact on release times. They are an incentive, not a reason. Publishers, and their desire to release at peak periods, such as Christmas, are the force most guilty for rushed games. That, and budgetary issues, but this is relative.
 

jimbo118

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lol, ... and Eastern developers? yeah, probably everyone's shit stinks.
They only Eastern devs I know make good games. Illusion Softworks, Ubi Romania, that Polish team who made The Witcher etc.
 

kupocake

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Don't act like you forgot. As far as I know, it never got fixed. There were a lot of patches and person-to-person solutions, but people still get s-s-s-stutter.
I refuse to believe these people exist, because I am not and never have been one of them.
 

Saturos

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Actually, they're not. The rantings and ravings of an impatient fanbase with little to no idea of how game development works, do not have a significant impact on release times. They are an incentive, not a reason. Publishers, and their desire to release at peak periods, such as Christmas, are the force most guilty for rushed games. That, and budgetary issues, but this is relative.
Makes plenty of sense, and also more reason to lower your expectations for highly anticipated holiday releases.
 

Lobster

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What annoys me most is when a game is released in a state that makes you wonder if the developer acctully played it at any point, I know alot gets said about Stalker being a buggy game, but they clearly have some talented developers to be able to even begin building somthing like that, but at no point did one of them sit back and think 'This controls like an epileptic hippo reversing over speed bumps!!'.

It seems the larger more ambitious games, RPG's or whatever, suffer the most from some basic elements that are important to the simplest of games.
 

Saturos

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What annoys me most is when a game is released in a state that makes you wonder if the developer acctully played it at any point, I know alot gets said about Stalker being a buggy game, but they clearly have some talented developers to be able to even begin building somthing like that, but at no point did one of them sit back and think 'This controls like an epileptic hippo reversing over speed bumps!!'.

It seems the larger more ambitious games, RPG's or whatever, suffer the most from some basic elements that are important to the simplest of games.
I wonder if this is true for vanilla Oblivion? I mean sheesh, you've got to install gigabytes worth of mods and patches to even get it to where it's even remotely playable.

I think too though that many of the more ambitious RPGs simply can't keep up in such a demanding, ruthless market. It's all about money and time, and super complicated and super huge RPGs just can't seem to get enough of either before leaving the studios in a timely manner.

If anything, I've learned a lesson. Be more cautious with modern RPGS. I've noticed smaller scale action/adventure games like Dead Space, Crackdown, or Bioshock don't suffer from bugs quite as bad if at all.
 
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