Healthcare town hall battles

CptStern

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Reasons why National Health Care is a bad idea.
1) It is not the purpose of our Federal Government to insure everyone is healthy... it is to deliver mail, protect for foreign invasion, and regulate interstate and international trade.
yes and only those three things and nothing else :upstare:

2) Out government is wasteful and inefficient. They cant be trusted with our money... why should we give them more to waste?
a for profit company controlling the health and well being of millions of people is a better idea. private businesses are much more trust worthy than government who are not profit driven. big business is in business for the little guy not to fill it's own pockets


http://whereisthemoney.org/
I would GLADLY pay the same amount that would go to this new health care system as charity to a local hospital. I know they will use it better.
"sorry maam, we cant give you a pacemaker because no one's donated a pacemaker in years ..and the ones we do get are used and unreliable. oh well sucks to be you. you should probably move to canada"

3) government run health care is slow. people will have to wait ridiculous amounts of time for care.
and you know this because as a native of california transposed to texas you've lived in countries that provide government run healthcare ....riight? and you people ALWAYS get this wrong; there is no wait time for serious illness. every single Emergency room across the world works on the triage system. your wait time is based on the severity of your illness. but you people conveniently ignore this obvious fact

4) any legislation that give more power to the Federal Government is a bad idea.
yes canada, sweden, spain, italy, the UK are facsit dictarships. your point is speculative at best and idiotic at worst

I know that for many of you this health care system is about compassion and caring for your fellow man, and that is an honorable goal. However you should not shrug off that natural obligation to a over-bloated government who has proven in the past to be terrible stewards of public money. Find a charity you believe in and give to it.
yes giving money to the march of dimes will help provide healthcare for 45 million uninsured americans. the problem I see it is that people like you havent a cluie as to what they're agaisnt. all they know is "omg big government" ..the US will never get universal healthcare because your type of ignorance is the norm

Also, if I understand this correctly, the "Public option" wouldn't necessarily be free... so they would still have to pay. Only 20% of the U.S population are without insurance this number is not nearly significant enough to justify overturning an entire system.
45 million americans unisured is not enough of a reason to overhaul your pathetic healthcare system? you rank below ****ing cuba, a third world nation

We as human beings are responsible for ourselves.
which is why americans need healthcare insurance

We rise and fall by our own merits and should not debase ourselves by allowing others to carry our burdens for us.
you can afford to pay $1500/day for stay at the hospital? you dont need handouts: drop your insurance carrier at once.

In order to be free we must be free to fail as well as succeed. Delegating that responsibility to the government will only drain you of your freedom giving the government more control over your life.
lol you're delusional and paranoid. I have a government issued healthcard. that's the extent of government involvement with my healthcare. I dont fill out forms. I dont have to haggle with INSURNCE SALESMEN who's JOB is to make money for their company which means paying out as little as is humanly possible

Patric Henry said "Give me liberty or give me death." and I hold to that.
god you people are ****ing pathetic and idiotic. explain how exatly this is taking away freedoms?

I will say that the U.S pharmaceutical/insurance industry is just as over-bloated as the Government... and do you know why? because the Rx and insurance companies made deals with the government.
it's a conspiracy!!!

Get the government to make vaccinations mandatory, get favoritism bills to pass in congress, mandate that everyone needs to have insurance. We are having these issues BECAUSE of the governments involvement with the health-care industry.

I seek to serve my fellow man. I seek to free them. Some will fall but others will soar.


free them by taking away their indeilble right to adequate healthcare ...right that makes sense. funny how the US is the only industrialised nation in the world that doesnt have universal healthcare. apparently in america not all people are created equal, only those who can afford it have a right to adequate healthcare.
 
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I'm surprised you guys are actually replying to a libertarian--your beliefs are so polarised there's really nothing you'll agree on.

Welcome to the forum! We haven't had one of you in a while.
 

nurizeko

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1) It is not the purpose of our Federal Government to insure everyone is healthy...
No, that's the job of a competent good government.


2) Out government is wasteful and inefficient. They cant be trusted with our money... why should we give them more to waste?
Demand they spend it wisely?. Last I checked the US government begs for your votes every couple of years. You willingly allow your government to go to war and waste money and lives to protect the rights of Afghan men to rape their wives, yet you furiously defend the rights of US medical industry exec's to rape your wallets and estate until your bankrupt and still unhealthy.

You deserve what you get.


3) government run health care is slow. people will have to wait ridiculous amounts of time for care.
At least we get it. But your wrong regardless, if government sponsored healthcare took too long half the UK would be dead by now.


4) any legislation that give more power to the Federal Government is a bad idea.
A foolish idea with no real reasoning to back it up. The important factor is to maintain civilian and democratic oversight of government, not to amputate it until its disabled beyond all use.

Your government has the power to beat you up and take you to jail for any number of crimes, it has the power to involuntarily draft you into its armed forces to fight whatever war it desires. It already has "too much power". Why not give it the power to look after your health without bankrupting you?.


 

CptStern

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this is what's wrong with Insured Healthcare:

Wheee, got info about my contracting agency's health benefits.

Note: I already pay $187/week for my family's health coverage.

In the email they said that we basically had two choices: An increase of $382/month or a cap on per year claims of $25k or $50 depending on how long you had been with them.

Yay healthcare.

Oh, on top of all this, it's a $2k/4k (single/family) initial deductible followed by paying 20% until you hit $8k/16k.
so for basic coverage his monthly bill would be $565 per month and he'd STILL would have to pay 20% of the bill plus a $2000 deductible

my total costs every month: zero dollars



yes there's nothing wrong with the american healthcare system

there are no "caps" in my healthcare coverage. I dont pay a thin dime, there's no detuctible
 

lord_raken

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@ Viperdae: Its good to be here. I'm pretty used to being caught between waring factions. The conservatives think I'm going to hell and the liberals think I'm a religious nut. The conservatives think I'm an immoral, tree-hugging, anti-industry gay-supporter and the liberals think I am some ignorant and heartless capitalistic demon.

@CptStern: I really dislike being called ignorant. I'm trying to have a duologue and you reply with insults. I see your side better than you see mine. You are stuck viewing the world through your own Paradigm, and you can't even consider any other point as valid that does not fit into your view of the world. Read the U.S Constitution. My potions are based on that document. Our federal government only has the rights that are given to them in the Constitution. Unless it says that the Federal Government has a power they don't. and it is not stated that the Federal Government has the power to function as a insurance company (just like it doesn't say they have the right to function as an car manufacturer). All powers not delegated to the Federal government lies with the States and the people.
 

lord_raken

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this is what's wrong with Insured Healthcare:

my total costs every month: zero dollars


I dont pay a thin dime, there's no detuctible
Yes you do. Its called Taxes. every cent the government uses they extract from the people through taxes and trade tariffs. There's not such thing as a free lunch buddy. if you would notice your country (I'm assuming Canada) has much higher taxes than the U.S.
 

CptStern

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@CptStern: I really dislike being called ignorant. I'm trying to have a duologue and you reply with insults.
I'm not insulting you. I'm stating FACT, you are ignorant of the issues, that much is apparent by what you wrote


ig?no?rant:

1. lacking in knowledge or training; unlearned: an ignorant man.
2. lacking knowledge or information as to a particular subject or fact: ignorant of quantum physics.
3. uninformed; unaware


I see your side better than you see mine.
how? you got everything wrong

You are stuck viewing the world through your own Paradigm, and you can't even consider any other point as valid that does not fit into your view of the world.
have we met? because you seem to think you know me even though this is the first time I've met you ...unless you go by another name

Read the U.S Constitution.
what does this have to do with healthcare or what we're currently discussing? I too can throw in random phrases

the lemonmerchants are suspiciiously absent today



My potions are based on that document.
do you have a potion of invisibility or any other gnarley potions?

Our federal government only has the rights that are given to them in the Constitution. Unless it says that the Federal Government has a power they don't. and it is not stated that the Federal Government has the power to function as a insurance company (just like it doesn't say they have the right to function as an car manufacturer). All powers not delegated to the Federal government lies with the States and the people.
insurance company? so you're saying that since it's not in the constitution the government shouldnt be inolved?

I'm pretty sure the internet isnt in the constitution but that didnt stop the US from making laws that pertain to the internet. or automobiles. or hundreds of other things that werent around when the consitution wasnt written
 

lord_raken

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No, that's the job of a competent good government.

Demand they spend it wisely?. Last I checked the US government begs for your votes every couple of years. You willingly allow your government to go to war and waste money and lives to protect the rights of Afghan men to rape their wives, yet you furiously defend the rights of US medical industry exec's to rape your wallets and estate until your bankrupt and still unhealthy.

You deserve what you get.

I vote against any wasteful spending, I contact my representatives. I was to young to vote to oppose going into Iraq. I hate the way our government sticks its nose into other people's business, but I support going after terrorists that attacked my country. I oppose the entrenching of the Rx companies, and I outsmart them.
I have Lymes disease and according the the Rx companies and Government regulations 2 months of antibiotics would cure me.... they are dead wrong... I've been fighting this for 2 years! and we have to go to California to see a doctor who will actually treat us... and guess what our insurance pays for it... it took some doing but we got them to cough up. If the federal government tool over I could not get treatment.

And please don't assume that all Americans are the same. a good chunk of them ARE complacent, indifferent, and gullible... how do you think we wound up with Obama? (McCain wasn't any better as far as I'm concerned. So I would have had the same opinion about the general populous no matter how the election turned out.) There are a few of us who are smart enough to know whats going on ( which means we argue a lot)
 

lord_raken

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I'm not insulting you. I'm stating FACT, you are ignorant of the issues, that much is apparent by what you wrote


ig?no?rant:

1. lacking in knowledge or training; unlearned: an ignorant man.
2. lacking knowledge or information as to a particular subject or fact: ignorant of quantum physics.
3. uninformed; unaware




how? you got everything wrong



have we met? because you seem to think you know me even though this is the first time I've met you ...unless you go by another name



what does this have to do with healthcare or what we're currently discussing? I too can throw in random phrases

the lemonmerchants are suspiciiously absent today





do you have a potion of invisibility or any other gnarley potions?



insurance company? so you're saying that since it's not in the constitution the government shouldnt be inolved?

I'm pretty sure the internet isnt in the constitution but that didnt stop the US from making laws that pertain to the internet. or automobiles. or hundreds of other things that werent around when the consitution wasnt written
I rest my case on the "inability to consider the other side" issue. and your attacks have no factual back up and are attacking the manner of my arguments rather that their content.

and resorting to criticizing typos is really silly.

Cars and plane laws pertain to interstate/national commerce, the internet relates to Freedom of Speech (1st amendment)
 

AJ Rimmer

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Patric Henry said "Give me liberty or give me death." and I hold to that.
This is a mis-quote. What he actually said was "Give me healthcare or I might die."

Read the U.S Constitution. My potions are based on that document. Our federal government only has the rights that are given to them in the Constitution.
Your constitution is 200 years old and it sucks.
 

Solaris

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I rest my case on the "inability to consider the other side" issue. and your attacks have no factual back up and are attacking the manner of my arguments rather that their content.

and resorting to criticizing typos is really silly.

Cars and plane laws pertain to interstate/national commerce, the internet relates to Freedom of Speech (1st amendment)
I disagree. I'd like to see everyone who posts in this sub-forum show a little more respect for their readers.
 

CptStern

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I rest my case on the "inability to consider the other side" issue.
what is this "other side"? perhaps you'd like to spell out exactly what is wrong with the propsed healthcare reform. specifically point out faults and offer up solutions that would make your "side" happy

and your attacks have no factual back up and are attacking the manner of my arguments rather that their content.
I've poked so many holes in your content it resembles swiss cheese

and resorting to criticizing typos is really silly.
yes but I found it funny. I like silly

Cars and plane laws pertain to interstate/national commerce, the internet relates to Freedom of Speech (1st amendment)
and the government doesnt already provide for healthcare? medicaid anyone?

Medicaid is the United States health program for eligible individuals and families with low incomes and resources. It is a means-tested program that is jointly funded by the states and federal government, and is managed by the states.
the funny thing is that if an american Gi shoots an iraqi or an afghani, they recieve FREE healthcare



I guess americans arent good enough for free healthcare but iraqis are. isnt that a kick in the pants?






AJ Rimmer said:
This is a mis-quote. What he actually said was "Give me healthcare or I might die."
this made me lol
 

lord_raken

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Ok. I have been going about this the wrong way. Why do you consider Universal Health-care important?

The constitution may be old but what was true then is still true now. Freedom of speech, right to Life Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness, the right to bear arms, Freedom of religious expression, right to property, right to a fair trial, the right not to incriminate one's self, the right to petition the government, and many others. Are you saying that those right are trash?! You should be grateful for your freedoms! Not take them for granted.
 

AJ Rimmer

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Ok. I have been going about this the wrong way. Why do you consider Universal Health-care important?
Because it makes sure everyone can get healthcare.

...can I stop there? Isn't that like, enough?

Okay, because it makes sure that when I get injured or sick, I only have one thing to worry about: Me being injured or sick, which could be quite a major thing. I don't have to worry about massive medical expenses that could easily surpass what I can afford. It ensures that everyone, regardless of their lot in life, regardless how or why they got injured or sick, regardless of how much they earn a year have the right to medical treatment. Having grown up in a country where this was an absolute, I find it hard to understand why I have to explain that giving everyone a chance to not have to pay money in order to not die is a good thing.


The constitution may be old but what was true then is still true now. Freedom of speech, right to Life Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness, the right to bear arms, Freedom of religious expression, right to property, right to a fair trial, the right not to incriminate one's self, the right to petition the government, and many others. Are you saying that those right are trash?! You should be grateful for your freedoms! Not take them for granted.
No, those are quite good things (Well, that right to bear arms is a bit messed up, and the American view of right to property is a tad screwy as well, but fundamentally they're okay), and it's good to have them in writing in case you somehow forgot them. But get this: THEY'RE GUIDELINES! NOT ****ING DOGMATIC LAW! SOCIETY HAS CHANGED IN THE LAST 200 YEARS! THAT PIECE OF PAPER HASN'T! So maybe it's time you accept that "Some dudes who ruled this country 150 years before there were automatic weapons and RPGs, much less Internet, computers and mass-produced, readily available retrovirals didn't okay this" isn't a viable argument against change.
I am grateful for my freedoms. My freedom means I don't have to give a shit about what someone thought was a good idea 200 years ago. If its still a good idea, we'll keep it. If it isn't a good idea anymore, we won't. What we won't do is say "It's not in this arbitrary piece of paper someone signed 157 years before my dad was born, so we can't do it." Know what that is? That's religion.
Lots of western countries have those rights established in a modern form, in modern law books with modern interpretation. A lot of those countries also has universal healthcare. Go figure.
 

Sulkdodds

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Ok. I have been going about this the wrong way. Why do you consider Universal Health-care important?
I made two large posts about why I consider universal healthcare important. They are on this page.

Now, maybe in truth the most effective way to organise universal healthcare would be on private lines. Or maybe as I believe it would be publically owned. Either way, it is essential that it be universal because "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness" are all seriously impaired by injuries, congenital disorders, and death.
 

lord_raken

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Because it makes sure everyone can get healthcare.

...can I stop there? Isn't that like, enough?

Okay, because it makes sure that when I get injured or sick, I only have one thing to worry about: Me being injured or sick, which could be quite a major thing. I don't have to worry about massive medical expenses that could easily surpass what I can afford. It ensures that everyone, regardless of their lot in life, regardless how or why they got injured or sick, regardless of how much they earn a year have the right to medical treatment. Having grown up in a country where this was an absolute, I find it hard to understand why I have to explain that giving everyone a chance to not have to pay money in order to not die is a good thing.

No, those are quite good things (Well, that right to bear arms is a bit messed up, and the American view of right to property is a tad screwy as well, but fundamentally they're okay), and it's good to have them in writing in case you somehow forgot them. But get this: THEY'RE GUIDELINES! NOT ****ING DOGMATIC LAW! SOCIETY HAS CHANGED IN THE LAST 200 YEARS! THAT PIECE OF PAPER HASN'T! So maybe it's time you accept that "Some dudes who ruled this country 150 years before there were automatic weapons and RPGs, much less Internet, computers and mass-produced, readily available retrovirals didn't okay this" isn't a viable argument against change.
I am grateful for my freedoms. My freedom means I don't have to give a shit about what someone thought was a good idea 200 years ago. If its still a good idea, we'll keep it. If it isn't a good idea anymore, we won't. What we won't do is say "It's not in this arbitrary piece of paper someone signed 157 years before my dad was born, so we can't do it." Know what that is? That's religion.
Lots of western countries have those rights established in a modern form, in modern law books with modern interpretation. A lot of those countries also has universal healthcare. Go figure.
Ok. First thing: I see what you are saying. It must be incredibly comforting to not have to worry about those things. However, is it right to take one mans property against his will and give it to another? No. because every person has a right to what they earn and own for themselves, and when an entity comes and takes away one's property that is called stealing. Granted if a people had enough of a voice they could remove this practice from the government but currently the tide of politics is flowing to the left at the moment.

Second thing: We had these right 200 hundred years ago.. long before others did (at least to that extent). and If they were good then and good now... does not the document that they are in still carry some weight? So what if its old? Does the principles that form the foundations of well free societies change? No they don't. Technology might (how do RPG's and the internet play into this?), boarders might, new religions may rise and fall... But those FEW CORE PRINCIPLES remain the same. You said that most modern countries have the same thing. well, that's great... so do we... On a 200 YEAR OLD DOCUMENT. The age does not matter... the content does. And we have changed our Constitution. for example: Giving Women the right to vote, Banning alcohol and then unbanning it. Making it so that Senators no longer represent the state Legislature but the people of the whole state. We mad many changes... some good some bad. But the core principles in that document have held firm. They grant us freedom.
 

Tyguy

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Second thing: We had these right 200 hundred years ago.. long before others did (at least to that extent). and If they were good then and good now... does not the document that they are in still carry some weight? So what if its old? Does the principles that form the foundations of well free societies change? No they don't. Technology might (how do RPG's and the internet play into this?), boarders might, new religions may rise and fall... But those FEW CORE PRINCIPLES remain the same..
First of all, if you believe for one second that the fore fathers imagined the world we live in now before signing that document you are just lying to yourself. RPG's and any other weapon which can cause a significant amount of destruction were not available back in the day so the extent of damage which one could cause was not enough to warrant placing laws against weapons.

Secondly, these core principles should adapt to the environment to which they are introduced. If you fail to understand this then I am sorry you are so close minded and arrogant. I don't mean to start name calling but honestly...COMMON SENSE. My only agenda is the safety of the people attending these events...what's yours?
 

lord_raken

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I know they they did not invasion the internet or cars and computers. But those don't really affect the principles. It might affect the application of those principles but not the principles themselves. )Side note: The reason we have the right to bear arms is so that we the people can protect ourselves from our government should it become tyrannical.)

Secondly: Principles, by their very nature don't change, but as I said above their application and manner of implementation can change. And in that we really are not arguing at all... we are merely fighting over the definitions of certain terms. The Constitution is a set of guiding principles that form a template on which we make laws.

I'm sorry you think my arrogant that was not my intention at all, and I put great emphasis on having and open mind and trying to understand other people. I am sorry you misinterpreted my words. My goal is to promote the freedom of my fellow man and to foster understanding between opposing world views and people. I lived in California for 15 years before moving to Texas. I spend a large portion of my time advocating me merits of the Liberal Left to the Conservatives here and I GET MY ASS CHEWED ON! Then I come here to advocate the merits of the Conservatives and I get the same treatment. And what I have learned from this, and I get so frustrated because of this, is that BOTH are close minded to the other side's positions!!! And I stand in the middle of it all yelling into the bedlam of closed eyes and flying fist begging them to stop and listen.... very few do.

I Empathize with both sides and advocate them to their opposites... that is not closed minded.
 

lord_raken

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I made two large posts about why I consider universal healthcare important. They are on this page.

Now, maybe in truth the most effective way to organise universal healthcare would be on private lines. Or maybe as I believe it would be publically owned. Either way, it is essential that it be universal because "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness" are all seriously impaired by injuries, congenital disorders, and death.
It would be great if all people could get health care... if it were to become affordable for everyone. We have the right to pursue happiness not a right to have happiness. It is impossible for a government to guarantee that the people will be happy. Heck, I'm sure that even in places where you have universal health-care there are people who are unhappy and miserable. Health does help facilitate happiness but its not the only thing.

Why is Public better than Private?
 

staticprimer

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Why is public better than private? Because among developed nations, we spend twice as much per capita as the next highest nation. At the same time, the WHO ranks us last among developed nations for quality of health care; 72nd in the world. Countries with public health care have among the best health care in the world. Let's think this through: private health care gets us double the cost with low quality per capita. Public health care gets them lower costs while giving higher quality care. Public health care is not nearly as slow as its critics make it to be. Sure there are waiting lists, but then again the waits are long here too. It's only the super rich here that get to bypass those lists. And you want to talk about waste? 1 out of every 4 dollars spent on premiums do not go towards health care. Think about all of the millions that go towards exorbitant executive salaries, advertising, and lobbying. Sure government has waste, but it pales in comparison to corporate waste.

Now you tell me, why is private better than public?


And somewhat unrelated note, I thought I would leave this here because even though it isn't related to the post, it is related to the topic:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sHsUi2Hu4Ug&feature=channel
 
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It would be great if all people could get health care... if it were to become affordable for everyone. We have the right to pursue happiness not a right to have happiness. It is impossible for a government to guarantee that the people will be happy. Heck, I'm sure that even in places where you have universal health-care there are people who are unhappy and miserable. Health does help facilitate happiness but its not the only thing.

Why is Public better than Private?
It depends how you interpret it, doesn't it. Besides the right to pursue happiness, doesn't the constitution also say the right to life and liberty?

I don't think you answered my question earlier. Why is it the job of the federal government to deliver mail, but not provide health care. Surely providing health care is well within the mandate of protecting the right to life. Not everyone can afford to pay for private insurance, and so it is the government's job to protect their right from disease.
 

AJ Rimmer

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Ok. First thing: I see what you are saying. It must be incredibly comforting to not have to worry about those things. However, is it right to take one mans property against his will and give it to another? No. because every person has a right to what they earn and own for themselves, and when an entity comes and takes away one's property that is called stealing.
That is an incredibly sensationalist way to say "Is it right to have taxes?" The answer is yes. Taxes are necessary for the government to do what it needs in order to have a functioning infrastructure, and to look after its citizens. Like, building roads, schools, hospitals, tanks etc. People have a right to make money, but they don't have the right to draw advantage of other people's misery. That is why Healthcare is something that the government should assure to all its people. Again, my world view makes it difficult for me to understand why I have to argue this point.

BOTH are close minded to the other side's positions!!! And I stand in the middle of it all yelling into the bedlam of closed eyes and flying fist begging them to stop and listen.... very few do.
Yes, it must be very hard being you. We all feel for you.

Side note: The reason we have the right to bear arms is so that we the people can protect ourselves from our government should it become tyrannical.
Oh is that the reason? See I've been wondering for years why you had it and never bothered to find out. Well that makes it all okay then, you need M4s and shotguns so that if your government tries to take over your lives, you've got a good solid weapon in your hand when those M1A1 Abrams start rolling into town. That'll really save you. And is totally not outdated and archaic, stemming from a time when anyone could own a rifle that took 20 seconds to re-load for a second shot.
 

Sparta

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PcRr5xA-K80&feature=channel

Heil Hitler Woman said:
We do not need to support illegal aliens...God bless them, I want to them to have care but, I mean, My husband doesn't have insurance... he has two jobs - three - no, two and half but he doesn't have healthcare insurance.

It's not a natural born right.

I want Obama and these people who have been in office for so long, who are so corrupt to be voted out of office because they don't care anything about the people they are supposed to be representing.

Cognitive dissonance? I have none.
She's also wearing an Israeli Defense Force shirt.
 

unozero

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I like how these foreign kids in this thread who most likely don't even have to worry about Health Insurance are trying argue about whats best for us.
Cept for Stern and maybe sparta the rest of you should stfu.




oh and **** that dumb bitch...if I was around when she said I would have bitch slapped her...****ing old people.
 

AJ Rimmer

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I like how these foreign kids in this thread who most likely don't even have to worry about Health Insurance are trying argue about whats best for us.
Cept for Stern and maybe sparta the rest of you should stfu.
Yeah, what do people who actually have universal healthcare in their country know about the benefits of universal healthcare...
 

Atomic_Piggy

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I like how these foreign kids in this thread who most likely don't even have to worry about Health Insurance are trying argue about whats best for us.
Yeah, ****ing foreign "kids", how dare they care about other human beings?
 

unozero

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Yeah, ****ing foreign "kids", how dare they care about other human beings?

The point is that you don't know what you are talking about.
Do even have a job? Your like what 18?
It's one thing when you participate in a discussion and another when someone that doesn't have a job,doesn't pay rent and most of all does not comprehend how wasteful our Government is.
Yes Universal Health care is a good idea if done right...The American Government is not able manage this feet though (IMO) because our nation is already beyond broke health care reform the way the Dems want it would dig us an even deeper hole.


And doesn't help when Obama compares the public to be like going to the Post Office....
 
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The point is that you don't know what you are talking about.
Do even have a job? Your like what 18?
It's one thing when you participate in a discussion and another when someone that doesn't have a job,doesn't pay rent and most of all does not comprehend how wasteful our Government is.
Yes Universal Health care is a good idea if done right...The American Government is not able manage this feet though (IMO) because our nation is already beyond broke health care reform the way the Dems want it would dig us an even deeper hole.


And doesn't help when Obama compares the public to be like going to the Post Office....
I'm sorry, I can't take the opinions of someone who doesn't know the difference between a foot and an achievement seriously. You clearly don't have enough intellectual footing for this discussion.

Ever heard of ad hominem?
 

Big_Odessa

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i think everyone is pissed off because we transitioned from a conservative cowboy to a liberal black. its just hard for the intolerant to adjust. they already have there minds made up about obama so anything he does they will criticize and nothing will change what they believe. its quite silly how dumb these people are.
 

Krynn72

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unozero, you really need to stop talking so much. The things that fall out of your mouthflaps are truly idiotic.
 

unozero

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Also the "rightwing" old people can't decide if Obama is a Nazi or Communist...it just pisses me off so much. just as Battim said in a video I posted earlier to invoke Hitler or Stalin is simply stupid and people that do that need be to be laughed it.
 

Krynn72

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Is that all you can bring to the table?
Its more productive than your posts were. I'm telling one idiot to shut up, you're telling more informed people who have better formed opinions and information to shut up.
 

lord_raken

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I consider my self a moderate Libertarian... this is made evident by the fact the Conservatives and Liberals alike hate my guts. I guess you guys do have something in common... YOU BOTH HATE ME! so get friendly with each other because you won't convince the other.

I called Bush on the Iraq war, the Patriot Act, torture, his homophobic policies, and his inability to speak publicly. I call Obama on his ludicrous amount of pork projects, health-care reform, Gun-control, massive spending increases (even more than Bush... and its hard to beat that wasteful old cowboy).
 

lord_raken

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Its more productive than your posts were. I'm telling one idiot to shut up, you're telling more informed people who have better formed opinions and information to shut up.
actually.... I think it is YOU, my good sir, who needs some lessons in current events, casual debate, political theory/history, and a nice big dose of common courtesy. You are not being very mature, and in desperate need of some manners. (you and about five others on this thread)

Try to keep is polite... please.
 
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