Healthcare town hall battles

Raziaar

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Any of you following all the drama involving these health care town hall battles? It's pretty entertaining stuff.

You have these town hall meetings talking about health care, and a bunch of conservatives show up shouting down everybody and drowning out all form of dialog other than yelling and screaming. The media and democrats etc start painting this as a Astroturf effort due to memos and stuff released describing how people can disrupt the town hall meetings in exactly the way that it's happening.

Lots of crowded town hall meetings, shouting, threats of violence, with the left apparently sending in the SEIU which represents janitors and window washers. Death threats, effigy hangings, shouts of Nazism.

Anyway... enough of my rambling. Let's get down to the meat of the matter. I think this whole thing is going to blow up big time. These things are getting way too heated way too fast, and it's going to end up with somebody bringing a gun and mowing people down.

Hopefully it doesn't come to that, but when you have people believing that this health care reform is evil and the people who want it are Nazis and Obama is Hitler... with threats of introducing people to the second amendment... well, things are going to get bad.

I gotta say though, this whole health care debate raging on and all the bullshit lies about it reinforces my belief that my country contains some of the stupidest people on the planet. Death Panels, forced abortions, etc etc. Absolutely retarded.
 

BlueWolf72

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Many town hall meetings are going to be canceled per CNN. The town hall in one town had obama posters with hitler mustache on the poster.
 

Raziaar

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You know, if people start believing that Obama is another Hitler in the making and enacting Nazi policies, how would anybody be surprised if those people make attempts on his life? I mean, if you thought you knew another Hitler in the making and could try and stop him before he committed atrocities on the world, wouldn't you try?

That's why these wackos are dangerous.
 

Raziaar

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Were people ever this crazy under Bush and Clinton?
There were lots of wackjob conspiracy theorists and stuff, but the level and extremes that it's taking with Obama I think takes the cake.
 

Sulkdodds

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People have definitely always been this crazy. Read Jon Ronson's Them: Adventures With Extermists (not actually that deep or informative but it is pretty funny). Still, because so many are on the ultra-right, the presence of an ostensibly leftist president is really shaking things up and bringing the scum to the surface.

Anyway, I feel like if we could put all these people to work writing sci-fi novels and TV we could actually get something productive out of them.
 

MiccyNarc

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I like how you put all the blame on conservatives, when it's SEIU and ACORN thugs that are shutting off access to the town hall meetings to anyone with dissenting beliefs. There's assholes on both sides, the whole situation is disturbing on many levels.
 

Sierra Oscar

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Ah, good ol local community political battles are healthy. We have plenty of them going on in Ireland at the moment!:)
 

CptStern

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I can blame the coservatives for this one because they purposefully spread disinformation

http://mediamatters.org/research/200907210046

Media conservatives have been fearmongering over health care reform, baselessly claiming that it will result in the denial of care, or, in the words of Laura Ingraham, "death camps" for the elderly.


http://mediamatters.org/mmtv/200907270005
http://mediamatters.org/mmtv/200907280028
http://mediamatters.org/mmtv/200907220006
http://mediamatters.org/mmtv/200907220004


it still baffles me as to why anyone who wasnt insane or extremely rich wouldnt want access to free healthcare. ..probably because the insurance industry is pulling their strings, I mean what other reason could anyone have for dismissing the idea of providing healthcare for every last man woman and child in america?
 

Raziaar

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I like how you put all the blame on conservatives, when it's SEIU and ACORN thugs that are shutting off access to the town hall meetings to anyone with dissenting beliefs. There's assholes on both sides, the whole situation is disturbing on many levels.
Those demonic janitors, window washers and poor people!

Also. I'm getting incredibly sick of the word 'thug'.

Both sides are using it and using it sans anything else.

It's ****ing annoying. Most god damn overused word of the year.
 

Warped

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My country is shit right now and its crazy but since I live near the Canadian border, and the dollar exchange is relatively close, we have another influx of crazy people into our country. I really want to move off planet soon before we all kill eachother over stupid pointless debates
 

CptStern

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sweet sweet irony:

right wing idiot protests at townhall meeting against healthcare reform, gets into fight and is injured ...has NO HEALTH INSURANCE, lololololol

Over the last few days, a conservative activist in St. Louis named Kenneth Gladney seems to have become something of a cause celebre in far-right circles. Depending on which version of events you choose to believe, Gladney either initiated or was involved in a scuffle at a town-hall event late last week.

"Supporters cheered. Brown finished by telling the crowd that Gladney is accepting donations toward his medical expenses. Gladney told reporters he was recently laid off and has no health insurance. "
and I'm sure there's tons of conservatives willing to pay for his medical expenses. call it social assistance, call it a handout, call it being a ****in hypocrite


http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2009_08/019423.php
 

MiccyNarc

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Those demonic janitors, window washers and poor people!
My God , seriously? They get a free pass because they do blue collar jobs?

:LOL:
and I'm sure there's tons of conservatives willing to pay for his medical expenses. call it social assistance, call it a handout, call it being a ****in hypocrite
No. Being a ****in hypocrite would be asking the government to step up and pay for this guy.
I have no problem if someone wants to ask for other people to help them pay for a procedure or medical care. They're doing it of their own volition.
 

Raziaar

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My God , seriously? They get a free pass because they do blue collar jobs?
No. But from everything I've seen(and I've been following this from the beginning), the conservatives are the ones who are being the most violent in actions and verbally. They're filled with the hatred and fighting spirit that people who feel they are fighting against Nazis have.

This isn't to say there is no fighting coming from the other side, but from everything I've seen it's not as rampant and many of the reports about it are unsubstantiated, such as videos that supposedly show "liberal thug violence against ordinary people" that nobody could possibly make out do to the blurriness confusion of the event.

And honestly? Conservatives aren't exactly full of credibility right now especially with all the bogus lies and deliberate misinformation coming out of them regarding everything else in the debate.
 

MiccyNarc

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You're only looking at one side if you're only seeing republicans (I refuse to use the term conservative in this context) being the instigators of violence. There's an equal number of assholes on both sides. The whole situation is disgusting.
 

Raziaar

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Kenneth Gladney. What a douche.

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2009_08/019423.php

GLADNEY THE UNINSURED ACTIVIST.... Over the last few days, a conservative activist in St. Louis named Kenneth Gladney seems to have become something of a cause celebre in far-right circles. Depending on which version of events you choose to believe, Gladney either initiated or was involved in a scuffle at a town-hall event late last week.

At least one prominent conservative blogger said Gladney was "brutally attacked" by SEIU members outside the event. After watching the video, there's ample reason for skepticism. Gladney was, in fact, pulled to the ground during the fracas, but he seemed to bounce back up quickly, and is seen walking around soon after without any obvious injuries. His attorney has argued that Gladney was beaten during the fight, but there's nothing in the clip to support that.

Gladney later went to the hospital, claiming to have sustained injuries to his "knee, back, elbow, shoulder and face."

Yesterday, about 200 conservative activists held a protest outside the SEIU office in St. Louis. Gladney was there -- bandaged and in a wheelchair -- as a featured guest. Some of the activists held signs that read, "Don't Tread on Kenny." Reader R.D. alerted me to this tidbit in the local news account of the protest:

Gladney did not address Saturday's crowd of about 200 people. His attorney, David Brown, however, read a prepared statement Gladney wrote. "A few nights ago there was an assault on my liberty, and on yours, too." Brown read. "This should never happen in this country."

Supporters cheered. Brown finished by telling the crowd that Gladney is accepting donations toward his medical expenses. Gladney told reporters he was recently laid off and has no health insurance. [emphasis added]

Wait, the conservative opponent of health care reform, fighting (literally) to defeat a plan that would bring coverage to those who lose their jobs, lost his coverage because he got laid off?

I'm not in a position to say whether Gladney sustained genuine injuries or whether he's exaggerating for 15 minutes of Fox News fame and a lucrative out-of-court settlement.

Either way, the new right-wing cause celebre needs to take up a collection to pay for his medical bills because he doesn't have health insurance. It's a fascinating sign of the times.
 

unozero

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dumbass old white people.
What do they care it's the young people that need to be worried.
 

Sierra Oscar

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Probably no doubt that there are people being planted at certain meetings, its the oldest trick in the book. Both sides will be at that tactic.
 

Krynn72

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No. Being a ****in hypocrite would be asking the government to step up and pay for this guy.
The guy is having citizens pay for his medical coverage. GUESS WHERE GOVERNMENT MONEY COMES FROM!
 

Stigmata

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I'd really like to see an interview where one anti-socialised-healthcare person responds to "But why?" for an hour.
 
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I can blame the coservatives for this one because they purposefully spread disinformation

http://mediamatters.org/research/200907210046





http://mediamatters.org/mmtv/200907270005
http://mediamatters.org/mmtv/200907280028
http://mediamatters.org/mmtv/200907220006
http://mediamatters.org/mmtv/200907220004


it still baffles me as to why anyone who wasnt insane or extremely rich wouldnt want access to free healthcare. ..probably because the insurance industry is pulling their strings, I mean what other reason could anyone have for dismissing the idea of providing healthcare for every last man woman and child in america?
In 15 years, from this...



To this....



Now that's what I call progress. Cool story, my American bros.

From

-A European
 

Raziaar

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Woops, didn't realize Stern had already posted my link.
 

MiccyNarc

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The guy is having citizens pay for his medical coverage. GUESS WHERE GOVERNMENT MONEY COMES FROM!
You're missing the point. Citizens are VOLUNTEERING their money to pay for his medical coverage. That's the difference: it's about freedom of choice.
 
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You're missing the point. Citizens are VOLUNTEERING their money to pay for his medical coverage. That's the difference: it's about freedom of choice.

True, his argument is rubbish.

A much stronger one is to start from the basis that access to healthcare is not a consumer good. It has aspects of being a public good. therefore provision is best achieved via public, rather than profit-driven means.

So for example, what about a poor person's right to have the same access to quality care and therefore chance to survive cancer as a rich person?
 

CptStern

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You're missing the point. Citizens are VOLUNTEERING their money to pay for his medical coverage. That's the difference: it's about freedom of choice.
no, you're missing the point. he's fighting against universal healthcare but is uninsured. he's fighting something that in essence is brought about because of people like him: uninsured americans. that's why it's ironic
 

Raziaar

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There are currently two crowds facing off at a town hall meeting that is going to be starting soon. Pro health care reform, and anti health care reform.

One of the guys on the anti health care reform has a gun strapped to his side. Yeah, that's not supposed to be intimidating.

The police say it is a registered firearm and it's legal for him to have it in plain view like he does, but they are keeping an eye on him.
 

CptStern

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only in america. no really that would only ever happen in america ...or afghanistan or sierra leon or sudan or ...
 
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There are currently two crowds facing off at a town hall meeting that is going to be starting soon. Pro health care reform, and anti health care reform.

One of the guys on the anti health care reform has a gun strapped to his side. Yeah, that's not supposed to be intimidating.

The police say it is a registered firearm and it's legal for him to have it in plain view like he does, but they are keeping an eye on him.
Isn't it amazing that people can be persuaded to literally physically fight against something that is in their own interest! lol

socialism my ass.

America may be a naturally conservative country when compared against other Western democracies, but the truth of the matter is that since FDR, the country has been ever-so-slowly inching to the left. Compare the size of the Government now to when the country was founded. Or compared to 1929. Natural result of increased net foreign migration, a full franchise and increased levels of educational opportunity for all.

For the record, the end in my opinion, is a good thing. The means may not all be. I'll let you decide which.
 

CptStern

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There are currently two crowds facing off at a town hall meeting that is going to be starting soon. Pro health care reform, and anti health care reform.

One of the guys on the anti health care reform has a gun strapped to his side. Yeah, that's not supposed to be intimidating.

The police say it is a registered firearm and it's legal for him to have it in plain view like he does, but they are keeping an eye on him.


 

Raziaar

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Oh. This makes the event that has the guy with the handgun even more interesting.

It's a Town Hall that Obama is coming to visit.
 

Krynn72

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Its about time we had another Civil War. I'm joining the side with the government funding and healthcare services.
 

CptStern

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that's too confusing. couldnt you just say you're on the side that's opposed to stupid?
 

CptStern

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this is what you're up against:

The America I know and love is not one in which my parents or my baby with Down Syndrome will have to stand in front of Obama's "death panel" so his bureaucrats can decide, based on a subjective judgment of their "level of productivity in society," whether they are worthy of health care. Such a system is downright evil

- Sarah Palin
she could have been vice president. stupid permeats from the bottom right to the top
 
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Couldnt you just say you're on the side that's opposed to stupid?
I am! I am!

Seriously, debate is good. Getting the actual people involved more in matters that concern the well-being of their fellowman is good. Going to these meetings just to disrupt other good-intentioned people trying to have a civil discourse is something a terrorist would do!!! There. I said it.
 

CptStern

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in my expeience this is what they've always done. about the war (except dems did it too) about same sex marriage, about torture, about creationism in schools etc etc. their tactic has always been barrage them with alarmist rhetoric and somethings bound to stick. these people are too stupid to formulate their opinions they need to be forcefed by the people who know their alarmist rhetoric will strike a chord with them. it's a vicious circle of stupidity fed by half truths and out right deception
 
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in my expeience this is what they've always done. about the war (except dems did it too) about same sex marriage, about torture, about creationism in schools etc etc. their tactic has always been barrage them with alarmist rhetoric and somethings bound to stick. these people are too stupid to formulate their opinions they need to be forcefed by the people who know their alarmist rhetoric will strike a chord with them. it's a vicious circle of stupidity fed by half truths and out right deception
True. Just getting a lot of airplay now, esp. from Fox News (big surprise). They are so unabashedly right-wing that any other view gets straight-up ridiculed. Its impossible to watch without becoming incensed because obviously there are still HUGE masses of people who agree with their rhetoric. Scary days ahead to be sure.
 
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