Grab the guns while we still can

Seppo

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This news a few days old and most of you probably already know about this, but I thought it was damn hilarious and exceptionally stupid.

PHOENIX (Reuters) – Sales of rifles, pistols and ammo are surging in parts of the United States, as many gun owners fear President-elect Barack Obama's administration may seek to tighten ownership of certain weapons.

"The day after the election, I had many more calls than usual from people looking for semi-automatic rifles," said David Greenberg, the owner of the Second Amendment Family Gun Shop, in Bisbee, Arizona, who sold out of AR-15 rifles in recent days.

"There seems to be a fear they will be banned, and it's fairly likely," he added. "Obama and Biden are driven to eliminate firearms from the face of the country."
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20081109/pl_nm/us_usa_guns

They're just getting a gun now because they have to before a new law might make it difficult in the future. Seriously, what's so cool about weapons? Why do you absolutely must have one? It's silly. Especially because these people are now getting assault rifles. I'd maybe somehow understand it if they were getting normal hunting rifles or pistols, but wtf friggin AR-15?!

"AR-15: a real man's choice. For situations when you need to hit that deer 800 times in a minute!"
 

G(ordon)-man

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Bah,it's pointless. Only hunting rifles and little pistols should be legal. Wtf are you going to to with AR-15?
 

jverne

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Bah,it's pointless. Only hunting rifles and little pistols should be legal. Wtf are you going to to with AR-15?
probably for defending against the Chinese army, own government or shooting down rapists with full body armor 150 yards away.
 

Moods

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Eh, although in a way it could do something, it won't do much.
 

CptStern

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This news a few days old and most of you probably already know about this, but I thought it was damn hilarious and exceptionally stupid.



http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20081109/pl_nm/us_usa_guns

They're just getting a gun now because they have to before a new law might make it difficult in the future. Seriously, what's so cool about weapons? Why do you absolutely must have one? It's silly. Especially because these people are now getting assault rifles. I'd maybe somehow understand it if they were getting normal hunting rifles or pistols, but wtf friggin AR-15?!

"AR-15: a real man's choice. For situations when you need to hit that deer 800 times in a minute!"
look on the brightside ..if gun owners are exhibiting a entrenched mentality ("the guvern'ment is gonna take ma guns") the chances of them going down in a hail of bullets when finally confronted by the federales increases exponentially
 

smwScott

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I went to a gun show recently with some friends ... the AR-15 is the least ridiculous of the ridiculous. Some of the shit they were selling there is just absurd.

Now I know gun nuts will defend their right to M82's, Uzi's, flamethrowers or whatever the **** ... but I have a serious question - silencers. Why the **** is it legal to sell silencers? What the **** else do you do with a silencer besides murder people?

It's just crazy.
 

PvtRyan

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I went to a gun show recently with some friends ... the AR-15 is the least ridiculous of the ridiculous. Some of the shit they were selling there is just absurd.

Now I know gun nuts will defend their right to M82's, Uzi's, flamethrowers or whatever the **** ... but I have a serious question - silencers. Why the **** is it legal to sell silencers? What the **** else do you do with a silencer besides murder people?

It's just crazy.
To kill the guy who came into your house in the middle of the night, but you don't wanna wake up your neighbours of course. Silencers: it's the polite thing to do.
 

Jintor

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It's all about ettiquete.
 

nipples

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Its not really the people with guns that you have to worry about, its the people with illegal guns. Make laws about cracking down on illegal guns instead of just guns in general, although I'm not sure how you would do this. If all guns are banned the illegal guns will still exist.

Then the zombie apocalypse comes and we have no weapons.
 

xcellerate

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Why the **** is it legal to sell silencers? What the **** else do you do with a silencer besides murder people?
yea, some people honestly have them to make their guns quiet. There's people who shoot squirrels in their back yard.

My friend bought a 'baby eagle' last week and we went to the range so I could show him to shoot it. While there I ran into a guy who owned FOUR desert eagles. One for each of the calibers, .50, .44, .357, and apparently this super special run they only made for a year .41. He was nice enough to let me shoot it since I'd never done it before...

http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t174/crisco3/IMG00184.jpg
 

Raziaar

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I grabbed 273 guns and I melted them all down.
 

TwwIX

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Noooooo! How are we going to defend ourselves now once the Zombpocalypse is here?
 
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This news a few days old and most of you probably already know about this, but I thought it was damn hilarious and exceptionally stupid.



http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20081109/pl_nm/us_usa_guns

They're just getting a gun now because they have to before a new law might make it difficult in the future. Seriously, what's so cool about weapons? Why do you absolutely must have one? It's silly. Especially because these people are now getting assault rifles. I'd maybe somehow understand it if they were getting normal hunting rifles or pistols, but wtf friggin AR-15?!

"AR-15: a real man's choice. For situations when you need to hit that deer 800 times in a minute!"
It's not about hunting, and it's not about being "cool."
 

nipples

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How would illegal guns cease to exist if all guns are banned? Is the government going to come to each and every single house/car/shed/backyard and search for guns?
 

xcellerate

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Prove it again, or link plz.
maybe I'm wrong, but it sounded like your argument was for home-defense which is, statistically, a silly argument. Last time I looked up the numbers it was something like of the crimes committed where the criminal had a gun only 17% of the victims were even able to TOUCH their home-defense gun, and then of that 17%, 20% of those 'victims' ended up being shot anyway.
 

Ridge

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This is a shitty argument, and has been proven so several times on this forum.
Its still true. Pass laws banning guns and only the people who follow the laws will comply...

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b100/89Sunbird/Dsc_0002.jpg
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b100/89Sunbird/Dsc31.jpg
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b100/89Sunbird/Dsc_0003.jpg
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b100/89Sunbird/Shooting/Dsc1.jpg
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b100/89Sunbird/Shooting/Dsc15.jpg
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b100/89Sunbird/Shooting/100_5811.jpg

What confuses me the most is people who love playing games like Counter Strike or Call of Duty and then refuse a free chance to shoot their favorite gun in real life...one of the most exhilerating things you can do outside of the bedroom is unloading a magazine through a fully automatic machine gun...
 

Jintor

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I will however decrease the availability of guns to people.

By that logic, why ban drugs? Only the people following the law will comply. Why bother at all? All those illegal drug takers will still have their drugs. We should just give up on that.
 

Ridge

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Not to mention the increase in drug related crime and disturbing amount of cash spent to fund the war on drugs that has been a dismal failure thus far...

Tell someone they cant own something and they just want it more...US Prohibition is a perfect example...
 

Calhoun

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The government should make it's priority and mission to create better policies to prevent the irresponsible, the mentally disturbed, and the people who would obtain a firearm with criminal intent from purchasing and obtaining firearms, rather than focusing on any kind of new ban on firearms.

If a large number of drivers are found to be driving under the influence or driving while intoxicated, no one is going to push toward banning vehicles on any large scale, people are going to look for ways to crack down on these people. I don't think banning something that people misuse is going to make the people that misuse it gain any intelligence points or realize that they should use that banned item properly because it's right, it's only going to sweep that problem away and out of sight, and there will always be something that that irresponsible or criminal group will misuse.

It would be nice to pretend it's not irresponsible people or criminals, though, but that just isn't true. Correction is a good place to start before taking things away.
 

AJ Rimmer

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How would illegal guns cease to exist if all guns are banned? Is the government going to come to each and every single house/car/shed/backyard and search for guns?
But it will decrease the number of illegal guns, as it will decrease the number of guns in circulation.
 

Bob_Marley

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Bah,it's pointless. Only hunting rifles and little pistols should be legal. Wtf are you going to to with AR-15?
Please explain to me the difference in effect of a semi automatic 5.56mm hunting rifle and said AR-15. As the bill of 1994 proved, banning weapons because they look "military" or "threataning" is just plain silly. If weapons are to be banned they should be banned on function, not form. The AR-15 is currently only sold new to civilians (as are all post 1986 manufactured firearms in the US) as semi-automatic only. Granted, it can be converted to full auto by swapping the lower reciver, but in order to aquire one legally it would either a pre '86 lower, or a new one sold to government agencies.
 

CptStern

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a few facts on stolen guns. it's a little dated but that's due to how many stats were collected

By definition, stolen guns are available to
criminals. The FBI's National Crime Information
Center (NCIC) stolen gun file contains over 2
million reports; 60% are reports of stolen
handguns.

From a sample of juvenile inmates in four
States, Sheley and Wright found that more than 50%
had stolen a gun at least once in their lives and
24% had stolen their most recently obtained
handgun.

The Victim Survey (NCVS) estimates that there were
341,000 incidents of firearm theft from private
citizens annually from 1987-92. Since the survey
does not ask how many guns were stolen, the number
of guns stolen probably exceeds the number of
incidents of gun theft

The FBI's National Crime Information Center (NCIC)
stolen gun file contained over 2 million reports
as of March 1995. In 1994, over 306,000 entries
were added to this file including a variety of
guns, ammunition, cannons and grenades

The National Tracing Center of ATF traces firearms
to their original point of sale upon the request
of police agencies. The requesting agency may use
this information to assist in identifying
suspects, providing evidence for subsequent
prosecution, establishing stolen status, and
proving ownership. The number of requests for
firearms traces increased from 37,181 in 1990 to
85,132 in 1994.

Trace requests represent an unknown portion of all
the guns used in crimes. ATF is not able to trace
guns manufactured before 1968, most surplus
military weapons, imported guns without the
importer's name, stolen guns, and guns missing a
legible serial number.

Police agencies do not request traces on all
firearms used in crimes. Not all firearms used in
crimes are recovered so that a trace could be done
and, in some States and localities, the police
agencies may be able to establish ownership
locally without going to the ATF.

so if they were to ban gun ownership (the only realistic way this could happen is that they ban the sale of all future gun sales) altogether there would be a decrease in the number of guns available to criminals ...that's not even factoring in the number crimes committed by legal gun owners with no previous criminal record (22% of all crimes involving firearms are from first time offenders), crimes such as spousal homicide ..on average, 70% of the murders commited in any given year are committed with a firearm. the majority of homicides the victem knew their attacker. only 13% of the victems were attacked by strangers. therefore it's safe to say that an outright ban would decrease the number of criminals gettng a hold of firearms as the availability dwindles. it would also decrease the number of crimes committed by legal gun owners ..which incidentily is the most common way criminals obtain guns: legally ..only 39% of the number of firearms used in crime are stolen, the rest were legally obtained

http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/pub/press/hvfsdaft.pr
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/pub/ascii/fuo.txt
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/relationship.htm
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/guns.htm
 

AJ Rimmer

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Stop talking. You're retarded.
Well said. And no.

If guns are made less readily available, the number of illegal guns will decrease over time. Okay, so the moment the law is passed the number of illegal guns will actually increase by 1000% but that's kind of besides the point as most laws aren't really that effective the very second they're passed. Guns taken off of criminals arrested will not make it back into circulation. Guns owned legally can't be stolen by burglars if they don't exist. Guns bought legally can't be used for violent crimes or sold on to other people if they don't exist. And as for collecting illegal guns, well, the Swedish Police force has a firearm amnesty period every couple of years when you can walk in and hand over whatever illegal firearms and ammunition you have without any questions asked or without giving your name. If the US police force wouldn't be comfortable about kicking down doors and invading people's homes, they could try that.
 

CptStern

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if guns are banned there will be no increase in the number of illegal guns unless there's an increase in the number of stolen guns. cut off the source and they'll have to get access through criminal channels like smuggling or outright theft ..anyway you slice it gun crime would decrease ..my stats prove as much
 

Kyorisu

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Since our government started the buy back programme the absolute number of firearm homicides has decreased significantly.

"There was a decrease of almost 30% in the number of homicides by firearms from 1997 to 1998."

-- Australian Crime - Facts and Figures 1999. Australian Institute of Criminology. Canberra, Oct 1999

This report shows that as gun ownership has been progressively restricted since 1915, Australia's firearm homicide rate per 100,000 population has declined to almost half its 85-year average.
The overall rate of homicide in Australia has also dropped to its lowest point since 1989 (National Homicide Monitoring Program, 1997-98 data). It remains one-fourth the homicide rate in the USA.

The Institute of Criminology report Australian Crime - Facts and Figures 1999 includes 1998 homicide data showing "a 9% decrease from the rate in 1997." This is the period in which most of the country's new gun laws came into force.
More here: http://www.converge.org.nz/pma/gunaus.htm

Old but still quite relevant.

In the 1996-97 Australian gun buy-back, two-thirds of a million semi-automatic and pump-action rifles and shotguns were sold to the government at market value. Thousands more gun owners volunteered their firearms for free, and nearly 700,000 guns were destroyed.

By destroying one-seventh of its estimated stock of firearms (the equivalent figure in the USA would be 30 million), Australia has significantly altered the composition of its civilian arsenal.

In addition, all remaining guns must be individually registered to their licensed owners, private firearm sales are no longer permitted and each gun purchase through a licensed arms dealer is scrutinised by police to establish a "genuine reason" for ownership. Possession of guns for self-defence is specifically prohibited, and very few civilians are permitted to own a handgun. All the nation's governments, police forces and police unions support the current gun laws.
 

jverne

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Its not really the people with guns that you have to worry about, its the people with illegal guns. Make laws about cracking down on illegal guns instead of just guns in general, although I'm not sure how you would do this. If all guns are banned the illegal guns will still exist.

Then the zombie apocalypse comes and we have no weapons.
your name is awesome.


lol at proposed solution.
 

CptStern

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nipples said:
Its not really the people with guns that you have to worry about, its the people with illegal guns.
this makes no sense ..stolen guns are the primary source of "illegal guns" ..they'r estolen from legal gun owners ..so yes you have to worry about the people with guns because that's how people with illegal guns get it in the first place
 

AJ Rimmer

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if guns are banned there will be no increase in the number of illegal guns unless there's an increase in the number of stolen guns. cut off the source and they'll have to get access through criminal channels like smuggling or outright theft ..anyway you slice it gun crime would decrease ..my stats prove as much
I meant that technically when such a law banning all guns is passed, all the people owning guns at that moment will suddenly be in possession of illegal guns until they hand them in. :p
 

CptStern

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I meant that technically when such a law banning all guns is passed, all the people owning guns at that moment will suddenly be in possession of illegal guns until they hand them in. :p
oh ok, my fault

I'm not sure they'd force people to turn in their guns ..they'd most likely ban the sale of guns, have some sort of trade and amnesty ..but I cant see them criminalising the ownership of guns ..this is what most gun erroneously believe as the OP of this thread proves
 
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