Garry's Mod going retail

Smigit

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Pi Mu Rho said:
They Hunger, DOD:Source, Garrys Mod, CounterStrike and while I can't name a 5th ATM I'm sure there would be a couple of others. Heck Oblivion is getting pay for mods too. I never said free modding is dead, just there seems to be a shift away from it (justifiably so).
 

bigburpco

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Smigit said:
They Hunger, DOD:Source, Garrys Mod, CounterStrike and while I can't name a 5th ATM I'm sure there would be a couple of others. Heck Oblivion is getting pay for mods too. I never said free modding is dead, just there seems to be a shift away from it (justifiably so).
Nope. CS and DoD were bought over by Valve.
 

Para

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I didn't know They Hunger has gone commercial...unless you mean the new one?
 

sam_justice

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I do agree with a post earlier I read about modders using hacked software and still getting money for their products.
But Garry does deserve this, from what I've read, his intention was never to rip anyone off as he declined the first offer. And now he has the entire source code he will be able to greatly improve his mod (I hope), and once he is finished with garrys mod, with that amout of coding experience he probably will be able to create a rather fantastic mod.
 
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Ghroth

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it seems ok to sell imo
i would buy it just to pick through all his lua stuff

though im sure its going to be cracked and able to procure for free in no time flat

what seems a bit dumb is that he is selling it at version 9 or later instead of version 1
every other game in existance sells at version 1 or before and people already have a version that they can use or get to use for free

anyone atm can get a erlier version to get a feel for what they would pay for in his retail version imo

i agree that there should be more to his retail so that people feel they are getting somthing

otherwise anyone can generate a lua scripted sdk mod over time

10$ is a good price compared to other mods that are trying to rip people off for 24$ with poor graphics
 

Insano

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Sathernut said:
Lol, how gay. Pay for a 3rd party mod? BWUHAHAHA. Gay?
I'm glad we have your objective, unbiased opion about stuff.
 

VirusType2

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boglito said:
I think people who can prove that they too have done hard work for free over an extensive period of time should still get gmod for free. Oh, wait, that's virtually NONE of these sad little people that are whining about mods going retail.

I don't give a rat's arse about gmod, but I support modmakers going retail on a general basis. If their work is up to snuff I'll pay for it and be glad they made their stuff available to me. If it isn't up to snuff I wouldn't have played it even if it was free.

I do admit that this will be a two-edged sword for gmod. On one hand fewer people might be attracted to it since it now costs money, while on the other hand it might be possible to make a better product that could attract more users. A fine balance indeed.

.bog.
Agreed bog.

It's a shame that the only people that will read what I'm about to say are probably the people that it doesn't concern but just read a paragraph damn it.

Just in case some of you have no idea how much work a mod is, especially since it's all being done by usually 1 person, it's several years worth of full time work in some cases. Garry's mod seems to be much bigger than what I had done. The guy spent a significant part of his life working on this, probably all of his free time.

Someone earlier in the thread said they have something against a guy programing a mod in his parents basement and therefore they shouldn't get paid. Thats the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. He is the guy that needs the money the most, and this is what he wanted to do for a living obviously, if he does it for fun, so let the man get paid! I have no idea if Gary lived in his parents basement while he created this mod, but many modders do. And if they didn't have that luxury of being supported, they definitely wouldn't have the time to ever create anything much at all because they would be at work 40 hours a week.
my only objection with mods going retail is the fact that 99% of them are using unlicensed software, and are living in their parents basements. this isn't good imo esp for competition in the market place. a normal game company has to hunt investors, buy computors, license software from windows to 4ds max, license engines etc. a mod has to pirate windows, piratd 3ds max, pirate photoshop, then they charge for the product? i don't like it a bit. if you go commercial, all your software should be legit, and you should have to prove it before valve ever enters into a deal with you, otherwise valve is just as responsible for the pirating as you are.
And if programmers did learn to program using pirated software to create it, well, it all comes back around! Consider it a student loan. You don't think companies that get money like Valve use pirated software do you? No, because they have money. A hobby programmer doesn't have anything but creativity and an interest. Eventually he will be able to buy the programing tools software that can sometimes cost over $1000 US each, and he will buy that particular brand because he is familiar with it and knows how to use it.

And your other point, I'm glad you are thinking, but please, do you think Garry's mod is any real competition against the marketing of big software companies?



Games can take a crew of like a dozen or even several dozen professionals years to make, and they need to be paid or they wouldn't do it.

I know I spent like 1000 hours on a mod and it's not finished, and it may have bugs in it and I may never fix everything, but if Valve or Id Software emailed me and said they really loved it and offered me a nice deal I would never be able to turn it down. Thats like a dream come true. Hell, an email saying they liked it would be significant in itself.

It's hard to explain how many bugs are in games and they just have to let it go because it would take forever to get rid of them all, and it's easy to lose interest and motivation, especially if you are doing the mod for free, for the simple fact that you are doing it because it interests you - there is no other incentive. They do it to amuse themselves and for the people that appreciate their work by downloading the mod.

If a modder becomes side-tracked or frustrated and decides to quit working on it (maybe mom kicks you out of the house to go get a job) then thats the end of it. But when money is involved it is considered a job, and we all know - you have to put food on the table.

That said, I never tried Garry's mod, but if he got a deal out of it, well thats no different than a kid on your street who had a talent and made it famous. Don't hate, be happy for the guy.

Just like most things in life - if you want it bad enough, you will buy it, otherwise, don't buy it. The only people complaining about paying for it should be the people that actually want it. Lets be real - nobody wants to pay for anything in life :rolleyes:
 

ríomhaire

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Ghroth said:
what seems a bit dumb is that he is selling it at version 9 or later instead of version 1
garry said:
The first GMod release added a crossbow that roped things together and that's it.
:p
 
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A crowbar that roped things together? ME WANTS!

But meh. I think we should close this thread, it's getting nowhere.
You people just need to go spam at Facepunch where you belong.
 

Gusdor

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Im still very confused why everyone even considers pushing for their mod to go pro. From where im sitting, sure, if VAlve handed over cash so that i could get my name on ap ublished title, BONUS, but at the end of the day I only want to make the mod so that I have a focus for portfolio work, instead of mindless doodling.

As for early releases. Hidden : Source released the buggiest piece of shit in the world as the "taster" and quite a nice number of people got thoroughly hooked on it. It paid off. Mods like Dys have a problem doing that tho, because for the game to work all the elements have to be in place. There isnt much scaling back that can be done (that we see so far :O what will they give us next! :D).

Fuzzy - level design bottlenecks. URRGGH. The bane of a good concept is not getting enough in the way of level design. Many MANY mods get destroyed because of this. Level design just isnt very forgiving and on the source engine, its ridiculously time consuming (tools need work Valve). And then, assuming you make the best of a bad situation as dystopia have, getting moar maps revolves around inspiring your community to create something quality. That is a feat in itself, something else that dys have pulled off (darkest voodoo magic tbh..either that or some cyber shit :D). Im only saying this becasue ive been there ofc. Anyone remember paroxysm for HL1? Same deal. Fun concept, but the objective based gameplay left it too reliant on level design
 

polyguns

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@ virus


"And if programmers did learn to program using pirated software to create it, well, it all comes back around! Consider it a student loan. You don't think companies that get money like Valve use pirated software do you? No, because they have money. A hobby programmer doesn't have anything but creativity and an interest. Eventually he will be able to buy the programing tools software that can sometimes cost over $1000 US each, and he will buy that particular brand because he is familiar with it and knows how to use it."


sorry dude, i know you mean well, but that was an unterly rediculous point. software licenses are purchased sometimes via a year. if you use pirated software to make a sellable product, then why buy it? either way, its wrong. anyone could sell models from pirated software, or games, or anything.

I agree with the practice, but for fun, not profit. my morals are a bit tighter as even though its illegal, I still believe its not immoral to use pirated software for educational purposes, so you can get a seat and a license one day. but not to sell. not to profit off someone elses hard work without paying for it.


Let me put this in a form you can understand. and anyone else could understand who is a fan of valve.


someone hacks the source engine code, and uses it to make a game. someone developes a full blown game on source without getting a license. hell , they even hack steam change the graphics and sell it. valve NEVER sees a dime. do you understand how that is wrong?

valve should of course ask for licenses from any mod developer they offer to sell over steam. if they don't, then VALVE IS PROFITING OFF OF PIRATED SOFTWARE THEMSELVES. yup, its true. they have a moral obligation to make sure all software is legit, otherwise since they are profiting, i think they should be held financially responsible to any companies that may have been ripped off.


the solution for valve would be to finance quality mods to recreate after a demo is made. to actually invest in the mod if they believe in it. but why would they take a chance on a mod? they won't. the way its set up now, theres no risk on their part, only profit. if someone elses software is stolen for valve to make profit, sobeit, what do they care, its all about $BLING$

that being the case, if valve is ever ripped off, and they don't take those precautions, then they have no right to bitch, but they do. hell, they freaking made steam to keep people from pirating their games, while they on the other hand will probably profit from someone pirating software.


just speaking some truth, no let the poly cursing commense. but you know im right on with this point.


keep this thread alive to over 200 posts ;)
 

^Ben

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Yeah, but you are assuming that ALL mod teams are using pirated tools, I'm not gonna lie and say everybody in the mod community is pious and is completly legit. But most people are usually in academia and we get VERY nice discounts off software(heck I get all Microsoft products free from MSDNAA) And from Garrys history(he seems to have done contract work before) he will have a legit copy of his tools.
 

r~ Defrag

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Good luck to Garry. If I made my own mod (own as in personal; me being responsible for the majority of it) and valve was willing to give me a source engine license and a 50% cut of the sales, you can goddamn bet I'd do the same thing.

Everyone crying about it and calling him a sellout need to get some perspective on the issue. Put yourself in his shoes.

Also remember that maintaining a mod (and keeping it compatible with steam) does take effort. Maybe if this opportunity hadn't arrived, gmod would be crippled for the next few years? Garry no doubt has other stuff he's working on (facewound for one) so a side mod wouldn't receive his attention forever. The only slightly questionable thing from my perspective is valve actually selling something that has been free for so long. I had always assumed that 'retail' mods would be free to HL2 owners and also available to non-HL2 owners at a standalone (cheap) price, ala CS/DoD retail. It seems this shan't be the model for source mods and beyond. :(
 

ríomhaire

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Smigit said:
I know...and what difference does that make? :upstare:
So whats that? 4 mods over 8 years? The mod community is DOOMED!
 

Smigit

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ríomhaire said:
So whats that? 4 mods over 8 years? The mod community is DOOMED!
thanks for reading my post.

I said it's a new trend, not that it's the norm or the death of anything. Currently it seems that the majority of the big mods are the purchased ones with the exception of Dystopia. There are others on the horizon yes but for the current time thats where they are, on the horizon.

Like I said also I dont particully care if they go to a pay to play basis, they need to make money and I'm currently at uni studying programming and I sure as hell would like to get payed to do it as well. I'm just making an observation.
 

bigburpco

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Smigit said:
I know...and what difference does that make? :upstare:
I doubt Valve would buy so many mods and bring them under its own arm. Going commercial and being bought over is different. You can't go saying, "My mod team wants our mod to be bought over!" As if you could make that decision yourself. Valve makes it happen, you don't. But for going commercial, the decision is all yours.

Very different.
 

Smigit

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bigburpco said:
Very different.
I'll give you that yes your right but thats more from the developers perspective. But theres the consumers perspective where it's not really different at all, where in either event the team is selling the mod, to valve or to the consumers. Either way they have to pay. Also in both cases the mod is still "going commercial".

Anyway I'm going to end this because like I've said I'm not really against anyone doing it and I'm sure the more we go on the more people will think I am. cheers.
 
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Valve isn't going to bring in every single mod. They saw G-Mod's potential, and tried to get it on Steam. That doesn't mean that they will find every mod good enough to be sold on Steam.
 

Kadayi

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I'm not too sure why people are raging about this. If a mod is good enough that a company is prepared to provide the modder with the means to go commercial I'm all for it. From the sounds of it Gmod isn't going to break the bank in terms of cost. You could waste more money going to the cinema and sitting down to a couple of hours of entertainment. If you're that into Gmod you've probably had hundreds of hours of free entertainment out of it already.

As for the issue of modders using pirated software, until such time as they make the jump from amateur to professional (and are making commercial gains from the use of the software) I don't really see any real problem. The truth of the matter is that programs like 3DS, Maya etc retail at thousands of pounds, and 99% of people don't have that kind of money to invest in pastimes. When I was at university the tutors pretty much took if for granted that the students had access to pirated software. Is it morally right to use pirated software? No of course not, but until such time as software manufacturers change their marketing model (renting applications anyone?) then it will continue.

Also I'm unsure why some people believe that all modders work for the love of modding alone. Sure some people do, but a lot of people hope that working on and making a great mod might open up doors for them in the games industry. Valve are particularly keen on mods, because it brings to light people who have the ability to deliver a vision and a product.
 

Gusdor

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because it brings to light people who have the ability to deliver a vision and a product.
IMO its more important for companies that a person has largely taught themselves and spent upwards of a year working for nothing
 

polyguns

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UltimaApocalyspe said:
Valve isn't going to bring in every single mod. They saw G-Mod's potential, and tried to get it on Steam. That doesn't mean that they will find every mod good enough to be sold on Steam.

i dunno, i mean think about it. everything they do is based on profit ,, and maximizing it. not saying thats a bad thing at all, but lets say insurgency, it will probably be a great mod. im sure it will get a distribution on steam as some free mods do, but valve will look at it as a way to make money without ever having to buy a single software license, pay for a single employee, pay any health insurance, pay rent. no the only cost would be a salaried employee making a couple press releases and the bandwidth to distribute it with. they could make tons of money, and i think gmod will be the first.

but i remember in the early days of hl2 modding valve said "we can sell your mods over steam" and alot of modders were like "hell yea" so this shoulda been expected, and we should expect this to happen alot more. especially on this site where payed steam games get more coverage then free mods anyways.

in a way though this practice is hurtful to modders tryingto get into the industry. normally, the "owners" or "leaders" of the mod teams dictate where the profits will go if something gets bought out. and as a mere contributor who made thousands of hours worth of contribution you could be lucky to get a mere 100 dollars. if your an ex team member, you probably will get nothing at all. if the trend continues though, the market will be saturated with free made mods for cheap through online distribution,and people won't purchase as many games, reducing the paid salary positions that modders somehow hope to get one day.
 

Gusdor

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it will probably be a great mod. im sure it will get a distribution on steam as some free mods do
Name one free mod distributed on steam...
 

Kadayi

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Gusdor said:
IMO its more important for companies that a person has largely taught themselves and spent upwards of a year working for nothing
Please indulge us further as to your particular rationale.
 

ríomhaire

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bigburpco said:
I doubt Valve would buy so many mods and bring them under its own arm. Going commercial and being bought over is different. You can't go saying, "My mod team wants our mod to be bought over!" As if you could make that decision yourself. Valve makes it happen, you don't. But for going commercial, the decision is all yours.

Very different.
It's still Valve's choice. They have to sell them the licence. Otherwise Valve are free to call the FBI on them!
 

Gusdor

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Kadayi Polokov said:
Please indulge us further as to your particular rationale.
Well, im no expert but i would of thought that its more important for a development studio to recruit fresh employees for new projects. People who are willing to and enjoy learning new techniques and software an admit that they are no experts. Modders have to show huge amounts of enthusiasm for this and will make great employees. Lets not forget how hard it is managing a project largly over the internet. Being succesful in that kind of environment is a bonus
 

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Will not buy it. Why? It's a mod.
An advanced mod, granted, but still 'just' a mod.

Plus, MODs are per defeninition free alterations to a commercial game done by an enthusiast. This was Garry's intention, too.
If we have to start paying for all popular mods in the future, it will go at the cost of support.

MODs are a great way for enthusiasts to show what they can, for enthusiastic gamers to get extra value from the games they bought, and for the gamedeveloper a great way to sell more games. So somewhere I feel it is a bad thing to charge for popular mods. Hire the talent, but leave the mods they made free.
 

Insano

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Geronimous said:
Will not buy it. Why? It's a mod.
An advanced mod, granted, but still 'just' a mod.

Plus, MODs are per defeninition free alterations to a commercial game done by an enthusiast. This was Garry's intention, too.
If we have to start paying for all popular mods in the future, it will go at the cost of support.

MODs are a great way for enthusiasts to show what they can, for enthusiastic gamers to get extra value from the games they bought, and for the gamedeveloper a great way to sell more games. So somewhere I feel it is a bad thing to charge for popular mods. Hire the talent, but leave the mods they made free.
For the last time: it's not a mod anymore, since Garry gets the full Source engine code.
 

ríomhaire

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Why do people say MOD when it's not an abreviation and it's just short for modification?
 

Crispy

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ríomhaire said:
Why do people say MOD when it's not an abreviation and it's just short for modification?
I think originally it was an attempt to distinguish between mod[erator] and [MOD]ification. Alternatively, it's perhaps a confusion with the '.MOD' sound (music) file extension, although this is unlikely.

But, to be fair, the abbreviation for 'modification' has been around a lot longer than 'moderator', originally coined for modifications to motorcycle chassis such as flashing lights and additions, among other things.

The abbreviation 'mod' is also used to refer to a lifestyle in Britain during the 1950s and 60s, and is short for 'modernism'. Like 'emo', to give a modern day example, the term defines itself by the musical and fashion tastes of its followers.
 

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-Crispy- said:
I think originally it was an attempt to distinguish between mod[erator] and [MOD]ification.
Why? I mean, there's rarely if ever any ambiguity. You can generally tell by context which is which.

The mods hate me.
He's a mod.
Mods hate me.
It's a mod.

I'll tell you what it ain't: A Ministry Of Defence. Gah!
 
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potatojenkins

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I'm all for it costing money IF it gets regular updates, and an actual retail-worthy release.

In it it's current state, with the high-and-mighty holier-than-thou garry barely updating, I don't see how I, or ANY OF YOU can justify it costing money.
 

99.vikram

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If it includes some interesting physics puzzles and some multiplayer content i'll take it. Otherwise, meh.
 
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