Garry's Mod going retail

keats

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garry said:
I think this is totally what Erik was getting at. A lot of modders set the bar too high for their initial release. The first GMod release added a crossbow that roped things together and that's it.

I tend to worry about the models/materials/maps last - but I suppose that's the nature of GMod.. so different strokes for different folks.
There's partial truth in that imo, but I don't think it flies for TC mods. As a coder I respect a lot what you are doing, but it is something very different from a TC. Making the models/materials/maps is the hardest part of development. And we're even an MP mod, I can't begin to imagine how demanding a TC SP mod would be.

If you want to develop you own universe and make a TC, releasing early is an excellent way to break immersion for any early adopter. You want people to feel the atmosphere of your own universe; if they're trying to shoot a wallwalking CS:S Terror model, you're taking out an important factor of the whole. Moreover, if you make a TC that is not WW2 or some modern combat mod, you had better get the few people interested in your universe hooked from the start; because you get a lot less interest than the classic themes.

I think if you see that you can't complete your mod at the current rate your best bet is to scale back and get something released. Your motivation will go up 500% once people play your game.
I believe in our game, and still love making it very much, my only point is it is a lot harder work than many people realise. We'll complete it the way I had originally envisioned it, and it won't take us that much longer. In retrospect, I wouldn't have done it differently, because I doubt we'd ever have developed such a high quality game if we had taken the early release way.
 
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I agree with keats, for TC mods, I think it is a much more difficult thing to release early. When you make a TC, you are trying to immerse the player in a universe that isn't HL2. To do that requires a lot of time, a lot of content and it would certainly delay an initial release. I'm happy for garry getting a little compensation for his precious time (and the full source... thats gotta be good) but I have to say I never thought Garry's mod would go retail. I probably won't buy it straight off the bat, atleast until the netcode is fixed somewhat to make it more playable and some really original physics things.

Someone mentionned Eternal-Silence: I don't think we will be going retail. If the mod becomes popular though, you bet I will think about it. Charging 10$ or 15$ for a mod is perfectly reasonable and the free Source License is an incredible perk.
 

Angry Lawyer

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Mutley said:
Would you like some free money? Oh ok, nevermind. :)
To be honest, if Valve offered me money for any of my projects, I'd say yes in a snap. Screw the whiney bastards who want free mods - I have bills to pay.

-Angry Lawyer
 

JNightshade

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At first, my gut reaction was to be pissed about it. But then I realized just how fantastic a mod it is, and how much work he's put into it... I say, go ahead. I'll buy it.
 

Asknoone

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Angry Lawyer said:
To be honest, if Valve offered me money for any of my projects, I'd say yes in a snap. Screw the whiney bastards who want free mods - I have bills to pay.

-Angry Lawyer
Hero.
 
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garry said:
I think if you see that you can't complete your mod at the current rate your best bet is to scale back and get something released. Your motivation will go up 500% once people play your game.
Agreed.

I'm working on an RPG for the UT2004 engine with 1 other coder. We haven't tried to create anything huge that'll take 10 hours to complete, it's simply just a prototype with the bare-bones for an RPG (3rd person camera system - see sig, object interaction, inventory and dialogue system). In the end it will take about 10 minutes to complete although you can walk around the map as long as you like.

Some mod teams aim too high and will never get finished.
 
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taroq

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On the topic of TC mods, I believe that even then there is a great advantage to releasing builds early and often. Remember the early days of CS? Buggy as a two-dollar hooker. Frag Ops, a UT2k4 mod, saw a significantly larger player base than many other mods in UT2k4 thanks to their consistant and relatively frequent updating (well, not anymore. It's dead. But it was good while it lasted). It doesn't really matter what you've got to show — people just want something to play. Hell, if you play any multiplayer game out these days there are more people playing hideous, ugly, eye-searing user-made maps than good looking ones. Nothing needs to look perfect in the early stages. Just bang out a decent game structure and work your way up from there. Remember, with every update and patch to your mod comes another chance to make it to a fan-site's front page. Exposure is good.
 

dys-Fuzzy

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taroq said:
On the topic of TC mods, I believe that even then there is a great advantage to releasing builds early and often. Remember the early days of CS? Buggy as a two-dollar hooker.
Times have changed. Imagine if CS b1 was released again right now (on source). It wouldn't rate a mention.

I'm willing to bet that every modder has the same release schedule; as soon as humanly possible. Seriously, how many modders are out there holding back content which is ready?
 

ríomhaire

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dys-Fuzzy said:
Times have changed. Imagine if CS b1 was released again right now (on source). It wouldn't rate a mention.

I'm willing to bet that every modder has the same release schedule; as soon as humanly possible. Seriously, how many modders are out there holding back content which is ready?
That's silly, of course they hold back content which is ready because everything else isn't. Black Mesa have a working houndeye but the mod isn't out :p.
 

polyguns

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TheMastahC said:
You're a complete moron. I'm glad you're leaving.
One down, many many more to go.

such class is so awe inspiring. i reakon debating games really takes dominance over being kind to your fellow humans.


people like you make jesus cry :rolling:
 

Angry Lawyer

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ríomhaire said:
That's silly, of course they hold back content which is ready because everything else isn't. Black Mesa have a working houndeye but the mod isn't out :p.
Working Houndeye code was included with the SDK :shh:

-Angry Lawyer
 

ríomhaire

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Angry Lawyer said:
Working Houndeye code was included with the SDK :shh:

-Angry Lawyer
You have to stop posting :shh:, this isn't the ZM or het or where ever you use that forum. You might Q_onfuze the n00bs.
 

Asuka

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footsteps said:
I have lost all respect for Valve. They are turning into one of those companies that will do anything to raise some quick cash without thinking of the longterm effect on customer loyalty. Steam is the perfect tool to release incomplete, buggy software to make a quick buck. Case in point: dod:source.

Needless to say, I am not buying episode 1, nor 2, or 3, or whatever number they get up to before people realize they are buying a product, instead of art.
You really dont belong here if you think that way. I would get pissed at you but im feeling pitty instead. Sad, your missing out while we have blazing fun playing Valves games.

You lose. :x

Simple minded people. Got to love this world and its air wasters.
 

605Scorpion

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MadMechwarrior said:
When you make a TC, you are trying to immerse the player in a universe that isn't HL2.
Nay. If I play a mod, I want to have fun. I leave the immersion to the publishers.

taroq said:
On the topic of TC mods, I believe that even then there is a great advantage to releasing builds early and often. Remember the early days of CS? Buggy as a two-dollar hooker. Frag Ops, a UT2k4 mod, saw a significantly larger player base than many other mods in UT2k4 thanks to their consistant and relatively frequent updating (well, not anymore. It's dead. But it was good while it lasted). It doesn't really matter what you've got to show — people just want something to play. Hell, if you play any multiplayer game out these days there are more people playing hideous, ugly, eye-searing user-made maps than good looking ones. Nothing needs to look perfect in the early stages. Just bang out a decent game structure and work your way up from there. Remember, with every update and patch to your mod comes another chance to make it to a fan-site's front page. Exposure is good.
Exactly. I don't care how many unskinned renders or high poly models of axes you have. Bottom line is I can't play it. Get the gameplay right first, then polish everything in updates, otherwise I don't care.
 

Pesmerga

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605Scorpion said:
Nay. If I play a mod, I want to have fun. I leave the immersion to the publishers.
Eh? You leave immersion to companies like Sierra and EA? You're really weird.
 

dys-Fuzzy

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garry said:
I can't really think of a single mod that succeeded by holding all of their stuff back until it was 'done'. Dystopia I guess held off a lot until they were at a decent level (Until they had all of their gameplay shit coded in anyway).
The bottle neck with Dystopia is our mapping pipeline. Maps take a long time to make. The first public Dystopia release was made as soon as we had a polished map.
 
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conlich

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JNightshade said:
At first, my gut reaction was to be pissed about it. But then I realized just how fantastic a mod it is, and how much work he's put into it... I say, go ahead. I'll buy it.
After thinking. I thought the same. Imma buy it to have fun. And love it.:sniper:
 

simon

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dys-Fuzzy said:
The bottle neck with Dystopia is our mapping pipeline. Maps take a long time to make. The first public Dystopia release was made as soon as we had a polished map.
I think thats the main bottle neck for all mods. A map takes edleast 6 weeks to make (and that is IF you work 8 hours+ per day on it, which most mod members don't have...) So basicly, a map can go from 2 up to 3 months, if you can work on it at a regular basis. But there are always things to fix up as the mod is being made, so a map is never really done. It's just... hard meh! :p
Valve needs to give us all two weeks vacation in Hawaii, it's their fault!
 
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Xenon2

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The whole purpose of mods is to make games for the gamers by the gamers

the problem with such an overrated mod going retail is that everyone will want to jump on the bandwagon
killing the whole idea behind mods

regardless of what his mod is, garry is a sell-out and a cancer to the mod community
 

TonicBH

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I posted this in a couple blogs with this title: "Garry Newman goes pro."

And that's what he did. What people need to understand is that mods and mod designers becoming full-fledged game designers and full, purchasable games has been around for a long time. Even back during the days of Doom.

Guy made a Aliens mod for Doom, got a lot of popularity among the Doom community, even the guy who made it was offered jobs at a few game companies, but he declined to finished his college degree. I say this: good job, Garry. I was thinking either Garry's Mod would become a full-fledged game or Garry was gonna be picked up by Valve or another game company. It was inevitable. I happened for CS, it happened for DOD, I had a gut feeling it was gonna happen here.

I think if, back in 1999, that people found out Counter-Strike was gonna be a retail game, people would bitch the same way people are right now about this.
 

Pi Mu Rho

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Xenon2 said:
The whole purpose of mods is to make games for the gamers by the gamers

the problem with such an overrated mod going retail is that everyone will want to jump on the bandwagon
killing the whole idea behind mods

regardless of what his mod is, garry is a sell-out and a cancer to the mod community
There is no bandwagon to jump on. It's not like Valve are suddenly allowing all mods to be sold via Steam. They made Garry an ofer, not dissimilar to the one made to Goose for CS, or the DoD team for DoD. Were they sell-outs? Cancers to the mod community? Don't be so ridiculous. There's already numerous mods that have set out with the sole intent of getting bought out and going commercial. How about them?
Get a grip.
 

dogboy73

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And why not? It's one of the most popular mods. $10 is nothing anyway. Good luck to Garry I say. If I'd made something as popular as 'Garry's mod' I'd like to think I could make a little from it. Happy the man who is paid for his hobby :thumbs:
 

605Scorpion

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Pi Mu Rho said:
There is no bandwagon to jump on. It's not like Valve are suddenly allowing all mods to be sold via Steam. They made Garry an ofer, not dissimilar to the one made to Goose for CS, or the DoD team for DoD. Were they sell-outs? Cancers to the mod community? Don't be so ridiculous. There's already numerous mods that have set out with the sole intent of getting bought out and going commercial. How about them?
Get a grip.
One of the best things said. If we're going to start being the moral judges, how about we start judging mods based on what they set off to do. Some mods start off as nothing more than as a ploy to get noticed and get hired. Mods like Garry's mod started off as giving something fun for the player to do.
 

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To me, Garry is a testament to the sheer willpower and dedication one guy can have. Pretty much alone he's created the most played Half-Life 2 mod, which he's now being offered money for. All of these teams of twenty-odd people, with ideas people, PR guys, military advisors, and all the other useless positions have nothing on him. Hell, how many media releases for Garry's mod have you seen? None. Singlehandedly, he's pretty much trounced every major mod-team that thinks "oh we'll get bought by Valve!" by just going solo.

-Angry Lawyer
 

Beerdude26

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Pi Mu Rho said:
There's already numerous mods that have set out with the sole intent of getting bought out and going commercial.
Zombie Master

I can't stand Garry, and I can't stand the fact that he's a coding mastermind and gets paid for it. :p
I'll just wait until ZM goes retail and takes over the entire gaming market D:
 

Smigit

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Well my oppinion. I don't use garrys mod, it doesnt interest me (I have dabbled in it) but I do think it sucks due to the fact it was such a loved mod and being free just brings a certain something to the community. I duno but with a seemingly endless number of mods going commercial it seems the days of having top quality free mods is near an end. So far I havent really seen anything thats taken my interest from the modding community for HL2 besides alien swarm (which has a payed and free version if i recall correctly).

Saying that I do congradulate Garry. People need to make a living so I wont coin him a sell out or anything. Am I happy Garrys mod is no longer free? Well no, but I am happy for Garry that it has got him into the business and will allow him to produce future products.
 

Merc248

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I've always thought of mods as "anti-capitalist," so me seeing a modification going retail or modifications being created JUST so they can be bought out saddens me quite a bit.

I myself still want to learn how to create something "cool" for the community (I tried a few times and learned a few harsh lessons), but I'll probably never put my mod up for sale, even if it nets me free money and a free Source Engine license. What Valve is doing is commercializing the mod scene when the mod scene is probably one of the better examples of how noncommercial a gaming community can be.
 

Beerdude26

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Angry Lawyer said:
Where the hell have you been, Beerend?

-Angry Lawyer
Empires took my life over, the girlfriend keeps asking more of me and then Oblivion takes away my night sleep.

I'm thinking of quitting breathing to spare time.
 

Pi Mu Rho

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Smigit said:
I duno but with a seemingly endless number of mods going commercial it seems the days of having top quality free mods is near an end.

Name 5.

Oh, and Beerdude - ZM isn't going to go retail, ever.
 

Angry Lawyer

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Pi Mu Rho said:
Smigit said:
I duno but with a seemingly endless number of mods going commercial it seems the days of having top quality free mods is near an end.

Name 5.

Oh, and Beerdude - ZM isn't going to go retail, ever.
Unless Valve gave us a wad of cash. Which isn't going to happen, I can honestly say.

-Angry Lawyer
 

Asuka

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Beerdude26 said:
Empires took my life over, the girlfriend keeps asking more of me and then Oblivion takes away my night sleep.

I'm thinking of quitting breathing to spare time.
Haha nice idea.
 

Krenzo

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Merc248 said:
I've always thought of mods as "anti-capitalist," so me seeing a modification going retail or modifications being created JUST so they can be bought out saddens me quite a bit.
Remember folks, when you download mods, you're downloading COMMUNISM!
 

polyguns

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hahahahahahahaha

thank god you can only run server side hl2 mods on linux


go gary

personally i think the dudes a genius. he could prollly do better for himself by developing an indy game then sharing profits on steam
 

filmguy123

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interesting how things in gaming have been, are, and will continue to change. The reason this wasn't so common before as game developers have never had a good way to do this... I mean to make the Team Fortress Quake mod something you'd have to pay for would be ideal from any business stand point, and also ideal from a modders stand point (who wouldnt take $$ for their work if offered?)... of course, there hasn't been much of a feasible way to do this.

It makes sense for Gary, valve says hey you wanna make money on that? You can, and we'll help you, just split it 50/50 - both parties benefit. It's not surprising, now that valve has steam and a very feasible way of doing this, and it's not surprising for Gary either.

Of course, I'm not happy about it... but I have a feeling this will become the new "trend" - mods come out, the good ones get noticed, the developed wants to make more $$ (after all, thats what business is about), and they offer the modder the opportunity.
 

605Scorpion

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People still keep ignoring the fact Garry didn't sell out. He just didn't. He was offered the entire fecking Source engine for free. All he had to do was agree to sell.

Valve: We give you the Source engine free and you agree to sell your mod on Steam (thereby pimping Source). Whaddya say?

A no brainer if you ask me.
 
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