Game of Thrones thread with lots of books spoilers inside spoiler tags

Javert

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Today is Sunday, more properly known as Game of Thrones day!
 

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I understood at the first season that they had to cut a few characters and make a few minor changes; no harm in that -- saves money, and prevents a bit of confusion for there being so many different characters.

Season two, has created some sort of parallel reality where the book is completely disregarded for reasons unknown. It's a bit too different from the book enough to warrant it being a re-imagining of the series. I don't understand why this has happened, and also why the nature/personalities of the characters have changed so much. Cf - the episode where Margerie expresses a desire to be The Queen, whereas I don't think she had dialogue exceeding 5 words in the entire series, up to book 4.

But I like it anyway.
 

Krynn72

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God that voice acting is terrible.
What did you expect? You do it was George R.R. Martin, right? Dude is a major cheeseball in real life, and this dialog shows why it takes him so long to make release a good book, considering this is probably how bad his books start.
 

Javert

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Tonight's episode played more like an Emmy nomination reel, but I don't mind too much.

Watched the hbo preview of next week's episode. I'm glad it doesn't look like they've skimped on the battle scenes.
 

knut

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of all the changes they've made to this show, there is only one that really bothers me at this point: gregor clegane. i get that the old actor had to bail due to scheduling changes or something but this new one ****ing sucks, or if not that then the writers/directors really aren't giving him much to go with. the brief snippets we got of him in season one were great - a towering, hulking, snarling mass of a man in steel plate armour who takes his rage at getting defeated out on a horse, which he cleaves with one stroke, but now he's been replaced with what is basically just a tall guy in badly fitted chainmail and lannister reds who sounds like saruman.

i was kind of under the impression they would keep him in his old massively oversized armour so as to emphasize that he is basically his own one man army that is just used by tywin because he understands his thirst for battle and thus keeps him close, but he just blends in now. i guarantee that if you asked someone who was only watching the show and not reading the books to identify who this character was they wouldn't be able to say it was the same guy who basically rage quit on his horse in season one, and not just because of the change in actor. it's a complete overhaul in his persona.

hopefully we'll get to see him be a bit more imposing and an actual terrifying sight in the next two episodes, or at least the last as i'm led to believe that episode 9 is basically 90% blackwater, if not all (?)

until then, i'm referring to him as the mountain that hides, because he's just lurking around harrenhal right now, geddit? bah.
 

Sheepo

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Well in truth he's seen very little throughout the books (IIRC). Most of the awful things he does are spoken of, not shown. Anything he did in CoK was when he held Arya captive, and that ship has sailed, so I'd get used to it. I'm not sure he appears again until
Red Viper battle
in SoS.

I'd say the most heinous and pointless alteration's been the injection of Petyr into as many completely made up scenes as possible. I don't know if it's done as an excuse for nudity, but given that the show's tendency to toss tits and ****s all over the place has just become a general source of hilarity for viewers, I can't imagine why. Probably not the worst change in terms of altering the original, but he gets a ton of screentime, in total, for absolutely no purpose, where as plenty of stuff is just left completely out or butchered.
 

knut

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it was more the presence of the character i was talking about, not necessarily the use. he went from being a great hulking giant of a man to a very skulking, almost quietly-malevolent evil instead of the feral creature he is described to be. i get that he's referred to as a chained dog at tywin's side, i guess i just liked the idea of him being like a chained rottweiler, snarling and pulling at it's chains eager to lash out on someone.
 

The Monkey

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Latest episode wasn't a hit. Didn't really go anywhere, and the Dany scene was unusually pointless, even for her. Also, why hasn't the information of Bran & Rickon's "deaths" been spread around yet? Sure would make Robb's dumb move of fucking Jeyne/Talisa all the more understandable, as he would seek comfort for his grief. Now he just seems like an irresponsible kid (which kinda works if he's 15 like in the novel, not fucking 25 like in the series)

Removed some of Arya's finest scenes too (put it in spoiler in case it happens in episode 10, but I doubt it)
Not freeing the Northmen I can do without, but why didn't they make her kill the Bolton guard (or Lannister guard as it would be in this case, had it happened)? It was one of the biggest character development moment in the whole story, as it very clearly marked her path to a darker and more violent nature.

The Tickler is dead too, so now we miss her murder of him in season 3/4 as well (which was THE best Arya moment for me in the novels).

Judging by episode 10's title and desciption, we will be seeing Jaqen again,though, so her getting the coin it pretty certain.
Still, I can't see how they couldn't fit in some more of Arya's badass moments. If they can fit in shithead Littlefinger threatening Ros, surely they could find room for that.

That's to say, I'm not a book purist, and most of this season's many deviations I've liked, both with Dany (her story needed some spicing up, it was boring as shit in the book) and Arya (the scenes with Tywin have been gold; that was a match made in heaven) . But when they remove short, inexpensive but vital scenes from the show, I just get pissed.

But seeing as book 3 will have 20 episodes, here's hoping they will squeeze some of the book 2 elements in there.
 

knut

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Also, why hasn't the information of Bran & Rickon's "deaths" been spread around yet? Sure would make Robb's dumb move of fucking Jeyne/Talisa all the more understandable, as he would seek comfort for his grief. Now he just seems like an irresponsible kid (which kinda works if he's 15 like in the novel, not fucking 25 like in the series)
this was mentioned within this very episode, shown too if i recall - all of the ravens to winterfell have been killed upon arrival, and there was a lot of dead ravens at one point. no one outside of the walls knows of the raid because it was so stealthy.
 

Krynn72

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no one outside of the walls knows of the raid because it was so stealthy.
Um... no? Everyone knows Winterfell was taken, what people don't know was that Bran and Rickon were "killed".

But yeah, its not surprising that word hasn't leaked out. The show's put a pretty big importance on Ravens spreading information as opposed to people, and they very deliberately showed that there ain't no Ravens flying out of Winterfell.
 

The Monkey

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this was mentioned within this very episode, shown too if i recall - all of the ravens to winterfell have been killed upon arrival, and there was a lot of dead ravens at one point. no one outside of the walls knows of the raid because it was so stealthy.
I was more questioning the external decision of the writers not to have the information spread, rather than the internal logic of raven messaging.
 

knut

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Um... no? Everyone knows Winterfell was taken, what people don't know was that Bran and Rickon were "killed".
l.
yeah no this was what i was meant to say, i was tired.
 

Eejit

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Could they have emasculated Jon Snow any more this season vs the books? He's just been three-stooging around beyond the wall, Ghost is nowhere to be seen, and Ygritte has pwned him even more than usual.
 

Krynn72

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Holy ****. This episode. Jesus. I can't even begin to describe it.

When the Rains of Castamere started playing at the end I nearly had a heart attack. It fit so perfectly.

Lyrics for those unfamiliar.
And who are you, the proud lord said,
that I must bow so low?
Only a cat of a different coat,that's all the truth I know.
In a coat of gold or a coat of red,
a lion still has claws,
And mine are long and sharp, my lord,
as long and sharp as yours.
And so he spoke, and so he spoke,
that lord of Castamere,
But now the rains weep o'er his hall,
with no one there to hear.
Yes now the rains weep o'er his hall,
and not a soul to hear.
 

Evo

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Wow, utterly amazing and brilliant. Loved it, bring on the finale!
 

The Monkey

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Great episode. The visual effects were spectacular, especially the wildfire. Sublime acting from Lena Headey (Cersei) too. I only wish we had gotten a better sense of how big the competing armies were. In the episode it seemed like it was a few hundred on each side, when it reality they numbered on the tens of thousands. But yeah, limited budget, I get it, and they did a tremendous job with it so I won't moan further.
 

Krynn72

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The only thing I could even nitpick about the episode was how fast Tyrion's little outting went. I dont think it showed them outside for even 30 seconds before suddenly there were no Stannismen left and they began chanting halfman.
 

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Yeah, should've been both a better speech/leadership bit and battle for Tyrion. Also, I feel like they completely overdid it with the Hound with his made-up conversation with Bronn and general attitude. We get it, you're a dark character.
 

Evo

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The only thing I could even nitpick about the episode was how fast Tyrion's little outting went. I dont think it showed them outside for even 30 seconds before suddenly there were no Stannismen left and they began chanting halfman.
Looking back, that is my one real issue with this episode. It just ended too fast. Ten minutes more would have been great.
 

Born

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Looking back, that is my one real issue with this episode. It just ended too fast. Ten minutes more would have been great.
Yeah, the scenes at the wall just screamed budget to me. Not to say it wasn't good; they did the best with what they had. I just couldn't help keep comparing LOTR Helms Deep to this episode lol. Anyone else feel the same?
 

ríomhaire

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Some confirmed characters for series three that I think some were worried were cut:
  • Jojen and Meera Reed
  • Cat's brother and uncle Edmure and Bryden
  • Stannis' wife and daughter Selyse and Shireen
  • Margaery's grandmother, the Queen of Thorns
  • Thoros of Myr
 

Eejit

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Brynden is Cat's uncle not her brother. Hurrah for the Blackfish!
 

Krynn72

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Yeah, the scenes at the wall just screamed budget to me. Not to say it wasn't good; they did the best with what they had. I just couldn't help keep comparing LOTR Helms Deep to this episode lol. Anyone else feel the same?
I didnt so much feel the budget constraints as much as I felt the time constraints. A lot of it felt hurried (like the aforementioned bit with Tyrion charging out) due to the length of time left in the episode, rather than issues with the budget.
 

The Monkey

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Some confirmed characters for series three that I think some were worried were cut:
  • Jojen and Meera Reed
  • Cat's brother and uncle Edmure and Bryden
  • Stannis' wife and daughter Selyse and Shireen
  • Margaery's grandmother, the Queen of Thorns
  • Thoros of Myr
More season 3 casting:
  • Tormund Giantsbane
  • Beric Dondarrion
  • Daario Naharis
  • Mance Rayder
Beric Donarrion did make a small appearance (without any lines) in season 1, but that was no doubt just an extra, and they will get a new actor for season 3.
 

knut

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season 3 will be a much more enjoyable experience. this season - on reflection - has really suffered in it's condensed format. it's still been fantastic, but so much more could of been done with it. i guess it's taken them two seasons to really get the executives/producers attention, and if the overall quality of the show, even in it's said condensed form, keeps up throughout season three then it's going to be mindblowing.
 

The Monkey

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Aye, and book 3 is fleshed out over two seasons, so they will be able to go much more in-depth with the characters and plot points than they have been able to this season. Great stuff coming...
 

ríomhaire

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I imagine they'll be bringing a lot of the stuff from the Feast/Dance storylines into the Storm of Swords seasons as they've been introducing a lot of plotlines early already so rather than it being two for Storm and one to share between Feast and Dance it'll be three seasons mixing up and spreading out the three books.
 

Sheepo

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Oh man, they managed to fit in the absolutely essential characters who should've been in the entire last season anyway. Sweet.
 

The Monkey

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Last episode on tonight! They have so much to get through. It could potentially be the best episode of the series, especially if they get a certain Dany scene right.
 
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Well, holy shit. That was awesome. Redeemed the whole season for me.

Best visual parts for me were frozen iron throne and the Other, best emotional parts were basically every scene. Nothing bothered me, no pointless scenes or stilted dialogue or character retreading.

Well, fine, one nitpick: they cheaped out on Winterfell. I guess we'll get some explanation next season.
 

The Monkey

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Great, great episode, 9/10.

Jon scenes have been pathetic this season, but at least now it's set up for some good drama in S3, with him having to play undercover among the wildlings.

Book purists are going mental at the changed made to the House of the Undying scenes, but I think it was sufficiently emotional. Most non-book readers wouldn't have understood 90% of the original prophesies and visions anyway.
 

ríomhaire

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Most book-readers didn't understand 90% of the original prophesies and visions.
 

Sheepo

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Speaking of prophesies: You gonna betray everyone everyday everywhere Stannis Baratheon. BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT IT WILL TAKE. Um, nah, that doesn't make much sense actually.

I think the House of Undying scene was pretty solid, although I didn't enjoy the outright antagonism of everybody in Qarth. And in a sense, Dany pretty much killed the entire structure and government of Qarth, which would be a pretty big ****ing deal and would probably haunt her for ages in the books, but they're probably just gonna be like, welp, whatevs, what's Qarth anyway? This is season 3. I honestly just wish they'd left the Dany bits boring and thus allow more time to hit the stuff they missed.

Winterfell sucked. It's confusing in the book, but what? We have no idea who's outside Winterfell. The Stark garrison, the Boltons. Who sacks it? Where does everyone go? Literally not the slightest idea of what may have happened, let alone what actually happened. Non readers are probably pissed as shit about that. I would be.

North of the Wall was nice. Jon's story ended pretty well despite him spending the entire season just being crazy incompetent and dopey. Others look great. But uh, how's Sam gonna get back on the fist? He's behind the enemy line. And fat.

Edit: Oh, and was anyone else bothered by the fact that the red comet was in the first episode, and then never seen or spoken of again?
 

Eejit

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I kept hoping each week that they would stop ****ing up Jon's arc. Oh foolish optimism.
 

Krynn72

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Damn, I guess its good that I dont really remember a whole lot from that book. I'm quite enjoying every bit of it so far. Still havent seen the last episode yet though. Can someone tell me (in spoilers I guess) what the major differences are in Jon's story?
 
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