Evolve: from the makers of Left 4 Dead

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Sidedraft

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I keep seeing this commercial on the youtubes for a new game called evolve.

apparently, it's being developed by the same team from left 4 dead.

It's a sci-fi themed game where a group of players fight hunt a large monster who is also player controlled.
Is anyone interested in this game?
 

Aizawa

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of course, looks great. The only question for me is will it make fun even after 30 hours? 60 hours? Or just 1 match every campaign?
 

Sidedraft

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If it's from the makers of L4D, it will probably be highly moddable, And i suspect we might even get a new section for Evolve in steam workshop.
 

Aizawa

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well, its published by 2k, so I wouldnt be too optimistic about that.
 

Tollbooth Willie

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how long before Valve buys this one up and sells it as their own game again
 

Tollbooth Willie

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Portal
Counter-Strike
Day of Defeat
Team Fortress
Left 4 Dead

They sold mods and pretty much bought up L4D and sold them for profit. Even though Portal, in their defense, was developed from them and the Digipen students.

Look. I'm gonna be honest and say I'm drunk right now and very bitter towards Valv. But most of their games have been them reselling mods and Source versions of them and another studio's game, even if for that studios benefit.

They have not released a single game since Half-Life that has been their own original idea.

Edit: I like your avatar. I'm ready for season 2 of Attack On Titan this summer.
 

Aizawa

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1. you forgot Dota
2. Well, that is Valve. They didnt just bought those games. People who made those mods, work at Valve, because they hired them. Valve worked on L4D, CS too.

What you are saying many people say, and I find it ridiculous. A game is not only about the single Idea like "a game where you shoot portals", but also the level design, dialogues, music, content, graphics, gameplay mechanics and a lot of other stuff.

"They bought up L4D and sold them for profit". That sounds so stupid... THATS WHAT A PUBLISHER DOES.
Besides I think Turtle Rock didnt worked on L4D on their own 100%. Also Turtle Rock were the people, who went to Valve with an Idea. They made a CSS mod where one team only had knives and the other team were only like 4 people, like a zombie mod. Out of that they made L4D. They worked together before, but Turtle Rock wanted to be independet, Valve let them, also let them keep their name, also gave them contracts and stuff, so they have enough money.
 

kineaesth

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I guess his argument might be that valve no longer exists as a creative/innovative entity, but that they are, including all their insistence about flexibility and flat management, absolutely a business and a company and a progression for profit and functionality. Does 'flat management' allow people to do what they want, and take risks, and be purely creative? Or does it simply act as a shuttle to the simple production of games that will sell? Would one, as a programmer/level designer/audio engineer/whatever, rather work on a weird side offshoot project, or would one prefer to work on a profitable, successful, career building guarantee of a game?
 

kineaesth

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This isn't to discredit valve's output - for the most part, it is stellar, and enjoyable, and vastly more entertaining to us, as posters on this forum, than a lot of other work that is being done.

"They have not released a single game since Half-Life that has been their own original idea."

But this is essentially true - Valve does not currently "make" games - they develop and produce them. This is not necessarily a bad thing.
 

Aizawa

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they dont make games but they develop them? okay...
"his argument might be that valve no longer exists as a creative/innovative entity,"
well... "no longer"? They are like this since the Counter-Strike beta or the expansions for Half-Life whatever came first. What I want to say is, that the people at Valve are the people who made those games/mods... I think in an interview Gabe said that when they founded Valve in 1996 they even hired back then mostly people from the mod community.

I mean you guys act like the 300 people at Valve are people from the industry, who do nothing but take ideas from other people and make a game out of that. But those 300 people are the people who had those ideas and now work at valve.

An example: Icefrog joins Valve, they make Dota 2. Now you can say: "This isnt Valve´s Idea, but they took everything from the mod and from Warcraft 3"...

Well you need Ideas for the character design, some people write the dialogue, some people design the level, someone makes the music. You need ideas for that too. And its not that they just remade the characters how they looked in the mod, but made totally new designs which are based on the original of course.

Another example: Narbacular Drop was the first game from the people who had the idea of the Portal mechanics. But Portal is much more than the portal gun. There are more puzzle mechanics then portals, for example the light bridge or the beam which takes you with it. You need ideas for the setting, for the dialouge of Glados and Wheatly and blablabla.

The thing is I dont like the way you are describing Valve. Its just false in my opinion, but my english isnt THAT good, so I cant describe it the way Id like to. Many people have ideas, but you need experts to make a great game out of it. Narbacular Drop for example isnt a good game in my opinion.
 

Omnomnick

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They sold mods and pretty much bought up L4D and sold them for profit. Even though Portal, in their defense, was developed from them and the Digipen students.
Valve obviously just purchases fully finished, 100% completed games and shoves them out of the door under their brand without any input from their own teams at all.

This is clearly how game development works.
 

Aizawa

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Valve obviously just purchases fully finished, 100% completed games and shoves them out of the door under their brand without any input from their own teams at all.

This is clearly how game development works.

THANK YOU. I thought Im the only one thinking this way...
 

Tollbooth Willie

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Valve obviously just purchases fully finished, 100% completed games and shoves them out of the door under their brand without any input from their own teams at all.

This is clearly how game development works.
Except way to go on not reading what I said. Yes, they hire those people. They polish the mods. But what I'm saying still stands. They're basically selling dolled up mods instead of using their own creativity to create something new, which in the last several years is lacking.

Maybe it's my dislike of Valve now, but that's basically what I think. And basically what it is.
 

kineaesth

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ok thats a little irritating. I thought Id only find Valve fans on this forum.
This forum is more than ten years old. I think it's perfectly reasonable for people to have a variety of opinions, and I think an entire forum of devoted Valve fanboys would be utterly boring. I post here because people like things that I haven't heard of, and so I can be a human being and learn stuff.


Ignore him. Willie isn't really a fan of anything.
Thank you for encouraging debate and discussion with a well-placed, evasive ad hominem
 

-smash-

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I've only seen the first trailer so I don't have much opinions yet. TRS usually creates quality content, so I'm definitely looking forward to seeing more.

As for the whole "Valve doesn't create anything original" argument. So ****ing what? Whatever Valve's been doing has been working. I would like to see some more original IPs, for sure, but other than that who cares if they polish not-well-known ideas. At least someone is bringing these great ideas into the spotlight.
 

Tollbooth Willie

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This forum is more than ten years old. I think it's perfectly reasonable for people to have a variety of opinions, and I think an entire forum of devoted Valve fanboys would be utterly boring. I post here because people like things that I haven't heard of, and so I can be a human being and learn stuff.




Thank you for encouraging debate and discussion with a well-placed, evasive ad hominem
THANK YOU.

I've only seen the first trailer so I don't have much opinions yet. TRS usually creates quality content, so I'm definitely looking forward to seeing more.

As for the whole "Valve doesn't create anything original" argument. So ****ing what? Whatever Valve's been doing has been working. I would like to see some more original IPs, for sure, but other than that who cares if they polish not-well-known ideas. At least someone is bringing these great ideas into the spotlight.
And look. I don't exactly like Vslve as much anymore, BUT I do at least agree on them making new IP is a good thing. Evolve looks f*cking incredibly good. I will be a player of it when I can. And yes. It's a good thing for them to bring these ideas to the more public view. Can I just say without argument that I don't care for the way things have gone? I mean, thee forums have never been one for agreement. But cn I just say this without an argument? I don't agree with things. People have their own views. Let's leave it at that now. I don't want any more shit from this between anyone.

Edit: I'm so f*cking done. It's impossible to express an opinion on this forum anymore.
 

Aizawa

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The only thing I did was to discuss. I just wanted to know why he thinks that way, and imo he doesnt gave any good argument so I kept posting. Its actually you people who a stubborn as hell. Is it hip nowadays to hate Valve? I sometimes have the feeling that because everyone loves them it became cool to hate them.
And why you want to say it without argument? Because you know its wrong?

sorry that was maybe a little too much :)
 

Tollbooth Willie

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People don't hate them because it is hip. People dislike them because they do nothing original besides recycle games and grub money from microtransactions instead of creating 'new' games that are actually interesting. People dislike them for a reason. To me Valve are small fish in the large scheme of things. Besides Steam, they're small fish.

On that note I am done with this thread because people like Nick and other staff members will only facilitate stupid, undying love for Valve like a bunch of shills. You know, I used to love Valve and think they could do no wrong and that they were the best thing ever. When I was a kid. Now I realize they're just as susceptible to bullshit as anyone else. Anyone who thinks otherwise needs to take the rose tinted goggles off.
 

Aizawa

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micro transactions? hahaha. Like the ones in CSGO? Where I already made like 30€? Probably more, but I also bought some skins. You mean the micro transactions in Dota 2? Which are purely cosmetic? Besides with microtransaction artists from the community can earn some money. Mapmakers who made maps for years for all kind of games now get a chance to get something back for that.
I knew you are one of those "oldschool" (not really oldschool, stubborn is the right word) people who hate every new trend. Only because everyone does f2p wrong doesnt mean f2p is bad. Valve´s f2p you basicly get a whole game for free. The whole game!

Besides Valve also does Hardware, they have the best VR ever and they are definately not a small fish. Only because Dota 2 and CSGO doesnt interest you you think that. Dota 2 is most played game on Steam and CSGO is 2nd. Oh they also make movies now haha. Valve is in a position where if they were so bad as you say, they could make much more stupid stuff like EA, but they know that happy customers is better for everyone in the long term. Of course you cant make everyone happy... ehm hl3 ...

no no I think I know what kind of person you are now, I dont wanted to say it, because I dont wanted to piss you off, but now im 100% sure. Also when I say stuff like this people come and say "shut up valvedrone/fanboy", whatever, but there is a reason I love Valve. I know almost everything about them (what a person from the outside could know) and I played every game from them.
But go on, call everyone stupid who loves Valve only because you dont.


sorry, I keep editing this post. Your post is just so ridiculous. Putting Valve on the same spot as everyone else? They could make CSGO 60€, they could make 4 map DLCs for 15€, they could forbid modding. They could do so much, but k, not HL3, i know how yo feel.
 

BabyHeadCrab

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Valve hasn't done anything unique since 2007. Willie has a sincere point, they're a mediocre software platform developer at best.
 

Aizawa

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are you guys trolling?

What is this place...

maybe if you keep repeating the same sentence 100 times I will believe you
 

BabyHeadCrab

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The only thing ridiculous about thread is how it became a discussion about Valve when Evolve is being developed by a studio which now has nothing to do with them, is being published by 2K Games and is running on CryEngine.
 

Born

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Haven't posted in a long time. I have however been lurking long enough to see this site wither in activity in proportion to Valve's continued silence surrounding Half-Life. I thoroughly agree with Tollbooth Willie. This old article sums up my thoughts on Valve now to be honest:

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-07-23-why-half-life-2-city-17-creator-viktor-antonov-left-valve

That, to me, signified Valve turning down a different path. Yeah, I know, a company is there to make money, but after solidifying their shining reputation with the release of HL2 and Episodes, what was to stop them from taking more risk and attempting to develop more genre-defining titles? Nothing. Don't bother mentioning DOTA2; it's not exactly the type of game to get you itching with excitement. The same goes for CS:GO.

So instead, they decided to pour efforts into developing Steam and "recycle" others' ideas and effectively re-brand them as their own. And fair play to them - Steam is very good; I like it. They're also making a shit-load of money as a result. You can't 'blame' a company for making alot of money.

BUT. I guess what Tollbooth Willie was trying to express earlier and which I also believe is that Valve has simply lost its creative spark. Half-Life has fallen off the map since Episode Two leaving over six years of mysterious silence surrounding the saga. People are pissed off. What's worse, they haven't released any games of the same calibre within that ridiculously long period of time. Instead of trying to push innovative games out of the door, it's like they've said "OK lads, there's potential for us to make alot of money here with Steam, let's sit on it awhile and see what happens. We'll throw a few titles out in the meantime to try and appease those raving Half-Life fanatics outside the door."

Not gonna wash with me. I echo what was said earlier in that some people here need to take off those rose-tinted glasses and face up to the reality of what they're doing.
 

Aizawa

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imo Portal 2 is easily on the same lvl as HL2 and yeah blablabla its not by Valve yeah ofc not, 200 people or what just worked in a game developer factory and did what they had to to, the ideas came from 1 person who was not at valve and they stole those ideas and branded them as their own, yeah i know sorry bad example

edit: I read your article. Well, he left, but Valve did big projects after he left. L4D2, Portal 2, Dota 2. For those projects he could do the art design and those are totaly different games, but i know valve didnt made them sorry, they stole them yeah i know

one more edit: you know that people at Valve can more or less decide themselves what they want to do. And dont you think after working so ****ing long on 2 Half-Life games and 2 expansions that people get tired of it and what to do new things? Like Portal 2? HL3 will come for sure... and if you guys are only like this because there is no hl3, then im stupid, shouldnt started this discussion, because you cant talk with mad Half-Life fans. Im a Half-Life fan myself of course, imo its the best game ever (1 and 2) and I played all of them like over 10 times, but dont ignore so much, because there is no hl3 yet.
 

Sidedraft

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Is it hip nowadays to hate Valve? I sometimes have the feeling that because everyone loves them it became cool to hate them.
sorry that was maybe a little too much :)

Unfortunately, I think this is true. It's happen before though, Like for example earlier in COD's life, even when it was still selling millions and billions of copies, its was arguably the most hated games despite selling billions.* If something becomes popular, it's opening itself up for criticism. (*not that it isnt still hated by alot of people)

And wow, I honestly thought people who sign up on to a website about valve and have clearly put so much time into the website would have more positive feelings about the company. I mean, you have every right and ability to leave but you don't.......so clearly you must like it. ........It's almost like you're a hard core repbulican and yet you love your job working for CNN news, or vice versa.o_O
 

BabyHeadCrab

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It's almost as if there's some sort of correlation between Valve apathy and website registration dates.
 

-smash-

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Can I just say without argument that I don't care for the way things have gone?
I mean, I can definitely relate to this feeling. The spark is dying, and I really hope that Source 2 and their next-gen games will remind us that they are first and foremost an innovative game development studio. But they've obviously transitioned from a focused, small studio, to this huge monolith that seems to have their priorities set on making money through all sorts of different channels. But I guess that's a consequence of them being the proprietor of a large platform like Steam - they're making bank off of it, and they have to maintain it if they want to continue to grow and beat out the competition.

I've basically reiterated what Born said, and others, so it looks like a lot of the older fans do share the same feelings. But I'm going to remain hopeful up until I see their next-gen stuff.
 

Sidedraft

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The spark is dying, and I really hope that Source 2 and their next-gen games will remind us that they are first and foremost an innovative game development studio. .
I agree.

While I do think valve have made some great games, they need to stop stalling. I hate to bring it up but its true. They need to count to "3". Every year that passes without valve learning 3 gets me scared..... because humans die......with every year that passes, its just more and more possibility that marc laidlaw ...or kelly bailey.....or the voice actors...pass away...whether it be a heart attack or car crash or whatever. I mean can you imagine a half life game not by marc? ....but i guess concerned wondering fans isn't really anything new or newsworthy.

(at the very very least i hope some sort of basic script has been written out for "3" games so that if we lose marc, God bless him, we don't his mind and his thoughts and his stories.)
 

BabyHeadCrab

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They don't make games anymore, and it's damned hard to relate to a a publisher/software company that doesn't produce any kind of art or foster any kind of community interactivity. It sucks even more that they bear a legacy and reputation that they no longer live up to.

I'm not speaking concerning the e-sports IPs.

So... how does everyone feel about Turtle Rock's Evolve?
 

MFL

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Definitely see Viktor's art direction from HL2 in Dishonored. Just now kind of clicked to me. Interesting.
 

Sidedraft

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So... how does everyone feel about Turtle Rock's Evolve?

to be honest i'm not to interested in it, at least not yet. It seems to science fiction for me, and while I do like my my sci-fi, I like it somewhat based our world. Like here's a given example, I like the guns/weapons I use to be familiar. It helps me feel more connected in the game, and stops me from just questioning the overall atmosphere of it. For example half life 2 in my mind was a good mix of familiar weapons and alien weapons. They have crazy alien weapons, but they also have the SPAS. (and guns are just a easy example, its lots of stuff like that)
 

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I would like to chime in on one thing. I think it's silly to say Valve haven't created anything original since 2007.

Portal 2 is a continuation of a game they made that is based on a game somebody else made, yes. But does Portal 2 resemble at all anything the guys who made Narbacular Drop ever could have imagined? Hell no. The Narbacular guys created a game mechanic, that's about it. Valve created the whole story, atmosphere, and more importantly, characters behind Portal 1 and especially Portal 2. To say Portal 2 is not an original creation of Valve just because it has portals in it (shit, valve even threw in plenty of new mechanics besides portals) is just ignorant.

It's not like Portal 1 and 2 were obvious ideas just sitting there waiting for a company with enough money to make them. Did anyone see that early stages of portal 2 development video? They created a large portion of the game, developing the game as a prequel, before changing their minds and scrapping it all. That right there says it all, to me. You act like they are incapable of original thought or making creative decisions. The only thing Valve appropriated was a game mechanic and a few people. To denounce Portal 2 as unoriginal because of this is just stupid. It's like saying HL1 was unoriginal because it's a sci-fi FPS with aliens.
 

Tollbooth Willie

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I'm too bitter for video games now. But Evolve looks like something incredible.
 

BabyHeadCrab

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I would like to chime in on one thing. I think it's silly to say Valve haven't created anything original since 2007.

Portal 2 is a continuation of a game they made that is based on a game somebody else made, yes. But does Portal 2 resemble at all anything the guys who made Narbacular Drop ever could have imagined? Hell no. The Narbacular guys created a game mechanic, that's about it. Valve created the whole story, atmosphere, and more importantly, characters behind Portal 1 and especially Portal 2. To say Portal 2 is not an original creation of Valve just because it has portals in it (shit, valve even threw in plenty of new mechanics besides portals) is just ignorant.

It's not like Portal 1 and 2 were obvious ideas just sitting there waiting for a company with enough money to make them. Did anyone see that early stages of portal 2 development video? They created a large portion of the game, developing the game as a prequel, before changing their minds and scrapping it all. That right there says it all, to me. You act like they are incapable of original thought or making creative decisions. The only thing Valve appropriated was a game mechanic and a few people. To denounce Portal 2 as unoriginal because of this is just stupid. It's like saying HL1 was unoriginal because it's a sci-fi FPS with aliens.
Portal 2 is an exception to the rule, I guess I didn't think about that. I hope they're working on something that brilliant right now. Hopefully not a puzzle game, though.
 
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