WMAP reveals universes age to astonshing accucry

Discussion in 'The Lounge' started by Atomic_Piggy, Mar 8, 2008.

  1. Atomic_Piggy

    Atomic_Piggy Newbie

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  2. TechnoHippyChic

    TechnoHippyChic Companion Cube

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    The universe has a fake ID.
     
  3. Raziaar

    Raziaar I Hate Custom Titles

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    I could have sworn it was 13.74 billion years old.
     
  4. $kelet0r

    $kelet0r Spy

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    hmmm
    that article stinks of bs - it's manipulating the data to make the Big Bang theory work, rather than actually letting the data speak for itself.
     
  5. kattmat

    kattmat Newbie

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    Please show me where they are "manipulating" the data.
     
  6. $kelet0r

    $kelet0r Spy

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    you've got to be kidding?
     
  7. Solaris

    Solaris Party Escort Bot

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    I don't understand where they are manipulating the data either.
     
  8. $kelet0r

    $kelet0r Spy

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    Maybe it's just me then ... but I was still under the impression that the Big Bang is still a (rather tenuous) theory. Stating it as fact or believing same is as illogical as having faith in a supernatural creator.
     
  9. Seppo

    Seppo Tank

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    i don't think it's that old. if the universe has been fere for billions of years, howcome we're still alive? pretty stupid actually. i think its just a publicity stunt.
     
  10. Solaris

    Solaris Party Escort Bot

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    "still a theory"

    The earth being round is 'still a theory', as is evolution, or our current model of the solar system.

    Understand some science please.
     
  11. Seppo

    Seppo Tank

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    it's not a theory becaue earth isn't a pancake anymore, it was changed. it's now round
     
  12. kattmat

    kattmat Newbie

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    What? I've got no idea what you're trying to say here, so an explanation would be appreciated.

    And Skeletor, the Big Bang theory is a scientific theory, just as the Theory of Gravity. It's without question the best explanation of the universe we have acquired through scientific means and is certainly not tenuous.

    While it leaves much to be desired and it's most likely not the final theory on the beginning of the universe it's just not possible to deny completely anymore. Even though scientist have been testing it for decades it still stands.
     
  13. $kelet0r

    $kelet0r Spy

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    Solaris, Kattmat you can't throw the theory of evolution and the theory of gravity at me to justify the validity of the BIg Bang 'Speculation'
    The former 2 have some very clearly observable effects and only really lack a) the time to actually observe it in action in a given lifetime or multiple lifetimes and b) we have no current 'measure' like joules for energy, for gravity, respectively
    The Big Bang's proof? The universe is expanding ... maybe.
    It may be right, it may be wrong, but to confidently state WMAP is measuring blah blah and therefore the Big Bang theory ... is blind faith, not really substantiated by anything observable or mathematical
     
  14. Solaris

    Solaris Party Escort Bot

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    Oh come on, this is ridiculous.


    There is a ton of evidence that supports big bang theory. We can see that all galaxies are moving away from each other, ergo, they all started in one place.
     
  15. $kelet0r

    $kelet0r Spy

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    You see that is not evidence - that's speculation. And further speculation is saying well a big 'bang' was the cause. And worse, there is no way to confirm if it is the mass of the galaxies that is actually 'moving' or whether the space itself is doing the expanding - in which case, the latter would discredit the Big Bang completely - unless someone can show that an explosion can permanently alter dimensions... And then of course there is the unexplained paradox of why the original singularity would 'explode' at all, when we can observe existing singularities which appear to be just that - contracting singularities ...
    You see the Big Bang is still more of a story - there is no existing math to back it up and there is no observable evidence either. I like it - it's understandable, it's somewhat logical after a fashion, but to embrace it like fact or really solid theory is a bit facetious
     
  16. Gray Fox

    Gray Fox Newbie

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    Theories, facts and laws are fundamentally different things. A fact states
    something, like the universe is expanding, the law describes it by stating
    at what rate, and a theory explains it. So a theory is not a hunch or a
    guess , it is an explanation. A theory does not become a fact or law after
    more prove, to become a theory in the first place it needs to have
    substantial proof.

    And the big bang theory is as certain as the theory of gravity or
    evolution, it has made numerous predictions about results that have been
    proven by empirical experiments.

    Thats just horribly wrong. Space is in fact expanding, the big bang
    created space time, everything, every law of the universe was
    created in the big bang. Have you ever actually read about the
    big bang theory, hell if you click in the links in the article
    you can find information that totally decimates you arguments.
    You seem to have the idea that the big bang means, there was an
    explosion in the nothingness of space which trew out matter.
    which is just plain wrong, it seems to me you haven't even read
    the intro to the big bang theory.
     
  17. Seppo

    Seppo Tank

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    in my opinions gravity doesn't exist
     
  18. Gray Fox

    Gray Fox Newbie

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    In my opinion, opinion doesn't exist.
     
  19. TechnoHippyChic

    TechnoHippyChic Companion Cube

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    Originally Posted by The Dude

    Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
     
  20. SimonomiS

    SimonomiS Tank

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    You see, opinion is more of a story.
     
  21. Seppo

    Seppo Tank

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    well...that's only your opinion

    edit: sorry technohippychic already used this joke
     
  22. Rapstah

    Rapstah Spy

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    Pesh says:
    "WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG."
     
  23. Atomic_Piggy

    Atomic_Piggy Newbie

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    Wow, you've disproved the entirety of modern cosmology. I'll go tell Stephen Hawking the news.
     
  24. Druckles

    Druckles Party Escort Bot

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    I agree with him. Which is a surprise. I can't believe we're discussing the Big Bang. None of you are in any position to actually argue it as a theory. And if you are, please state so. It's widely accepted as a theory, and there has been nothing to prove it wrong, so it's remained there with people attempting to "disprove" it with arguments ranging from just stupid to ridiculous "logic". I was on a website the other day (which I think I showed Pesh and Rapstah) which was attempting to "disprove" evolution and the Big Bang theory. If anything, it just secured my faith in it, the evidence against it was just so ridiculous. Plus it was a Fundamentalist of some sort, so it was kinda funny, too.
     
  25. Gray Fox

    Gray Fox Newbie

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    If three wrongs make a right, what do four do?
     
  26. Druckles

    Druckles Party Escort Bot

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    It's almost as bad as Stern reaching 30,000 posts. Not quite, though. Just don't say it out loud.
     
  27. Llama

    Llama Tank

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    The amount of stupid in this thread makes my head hurt.

    Thanks, anti-big-bang guys, I needed a laugh.
     
  28. Seppo

    Seppo Tank

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    what i still don't understand is, how did the universe start to exist? i mean, if there was nothing, absolutely nothing to start with, how did everything start to exist? anyone able to explain?
     
  29. Atomic_Piggy

    Atomic_Piggy Newbie

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    There are a number of theories, but we don't know for certain; we may never know, since anything before the big bang is...unimaginable.
     
  30. NeptuneUK

    NeptuneUK Space Core

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    Shit! The bible was almost right!
    This sure does make the last 6000 years of scientific advancement rather flawed.
     
  31. Tagaziel

    Tagaziel Party Escort Bot

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    The Universe is flat.

    Praaaaaachett!!!
     
  32. spunge

    spunge Newbie

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    so close to 13.37 billion years.. so close
     
  33. theotherguy

    theotherguy Newbie

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    My god. Study some cosmology.

    Space itself is expanding.

    The big bang does not refer to an explosion. It refers to a rapid expansion of space and time.

    What caused this? We don't know. The only "speculative" parts about Big Bang are the causes of it and the reason spacetime expansion is accelerating. Multiverse theories and string theory hold that the expansion could have been caused by a collision with an existing universe, or a "budding" off from an existing universe. Of course, that just continues the infinite regress. But in short, we know that the big bang happened, but we don't know what caused it.
     
  34. Slug Advisor

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    Solaris used ergo, ergo, he knows what he's talking about.

    But yeah, I'd say I'm pro-Big Bang.
     
  35. NeptuneUK

    NeptuneUK Space Core

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    This works for me.


    I'd like to believe in the cyclic model of the universe's lifespan, but evidence seems to point towards one big bang followed by a big freeze some time later.

    But there are still some cool still un-disproved theories! :D
     
  36. Slug Advisor

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    Indeed. Actually, I'd sa-ALL GLORY TO THE HYPNOTOAD!
     
  37. NeptuneUK

    NeptuneUK Space Core

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    [​IMG]
     
  38. TheHamster22

    TheHamster22 Newbie

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    Just a quick run up of the other bits of evidence for the big bang, which isn't just the expansion of space:

    1) The fact we have WMAP at all! Cosmic background radiation is actually evidence of the big bang, as it is the ruminants of it. The original wavelengths being stretched out as space expands over the 13.7 billion years.

    2) We can measure the ratios of hydrogen and helium in extremely distant stars (or quasars I suppose? Don't see why not), and we can see this ratio lies at essentially 3/4 hydrogen and 1/4 helium and this ratio remains essentially so today, with about 1% difference in the ratios. This supports a big bang theory as if all matter was to be created in this huge event, the big bang, then this is what we would expect to see.

    Why? Because we know that there would be essentially be no tendency to make more neutrons than protons. However neutrons decay in about 10 seconds into a proton and an electron (and an electron anti-neutrino?), but if there was a big bang then you'll expect to see half of the neutrons decay before the universe cools enough for nuclei to form. This will produce the ratio of 75:25 we see today.
     
  39. yakuruto

    yakuruto Newbie

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    Would you please explain why?

    As a professional with scientific education (not exactly physics or astrophysics) I accept the Big Bang theory as a plausible explanation of how the universe we live in came to be, but even so I think of it as a very educated GUESS (after all, it's only a theory), good so far as a base model for further investigations and, because of the lack of something more adequate (or MAYBE because it actually happened) it's been supported by the scientific community all around the world. However, IMO it still presents some holes that I doubt anyone here can clarify and discussing them here would be a waste of time.

    To each his own, believe or not in the Big Bang or the universe being a zillion years old won't really change the course of our lives (we humans have a rather short lifespan compared with the age of the universe) and trying to force own believes to other people is rather silly, no matter how many "solid facts" back your point up. People criticize fundamentalist and religious groups for saying that they have the answers to all questions in their holly book (whatever the religion) and using arguments from that book to prove their point, but that's exactly what the so called science-men do. The data each side uses as proof comes from different sources, but for each group that's their accepted truth, and being opposing points of view the other group's will be automatically wrong.

    Live and let live, people, don't flame others for their believes.
     
  40. Slug Advisor

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    I can't, I have allodoxaphobia!
     

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