Discussion in 'Half-Life' started by DrFowler, Mar 31, 2011.
Most of that line was cut. In the game he just says no regrets Mr Freeman.
Ah, but it wasn't cut in the original versions, see?
Still, they are survivors, and it's clear that they would like to meet him, so nothing's changed, just emphasized.
Ah, I see what you mean. It's true, I've noted before how they're neutral in the factory, but being passive and seeing a friend are different things. At the same time, however, the Alien Controllers are all around the room not doing much to enforce their strike. I think the Grunts are more likely to act on vengeful impulses than the Vort workers, if they have any. I kind of figured they were either too ignorant, too damaged or too scared do anything, or else under a particularly different code of contact. Regardless, I don't think the Controllers have so much influence on the Vortigaunts without Nihilanth, and I see no reason for them to be against each other even if they did. Not when they're in the same sinking ship, as it were.
If there's even much freedom to be had where there's a controller around, I get the impression everyone wants the same thing under limited resources. If there's front-lines, it's probably earth. Good thing with Boss: there's power. Bad thing with Boss: It's abused.
Hmm, that's a fair point, but I only meant "leader", if that's reasonable with you to use? Also, we don't actually know the Controllers have died out yet.
If you want to call someone stupid, try using proper grammer in your accusation.
Anywho, I never said that Nihlaneth's ability was posessed by the combine, I just said that Nihlaneth's floaty thing came from the combine, as I can't think of anywhere else he could get that. And why would the combine not be on xen, what with them being a colonizing empire and all.
And no, we dont know weather or not he was captured, but there is no doubt that at some point, Nihlaneth was either manipulated, or somehow controlled. Maybe captured. I still think that my "Nihlaneth was a combine advisor" theory explains a lot of things. Whatever. Flame away.
> Attacks another user's grammar
> Misspells Nihilanth
Yep, that's about right.
so let me get this straight, they have the technology to teleport anywhere they want, and you are telling me that they can't make their own floating machines. yeah right. did you even play the game, or read my previous post properly? I already explained you why combine can't get on xen.
>When someone writing at a third grade level calls you stupid, its kinda hard to not say something.
>I've seen 5 different spellings of Nihilanth, so excuse me for being confused. And its tricky to write a word not in the English language on an iPhone, so go blame Steve Jobs.
I figured I'd take the time to explain myself since certain people (cough BARNZ cough) don't seem to understand what I'm saying. My idea is that Nihilanth is a combine advisor who at one point controlled Vortigaunts through either telepathy, the Vortigaunts' green chest plate, or a combination. As I've said before, there is a possibility that Nihilanth was a prisoner of the combine or some other force, but my theory disagrees with that. My theory suggests that the Nihilanth IS a combine advisor.
From what we know about combine advisors, we can say that they are beings with substantial mental potential, having that ability to make things float (episode 2 where he almost sucks Gordon's brains out), the ability to induce mental pain (episode 1 citadel), and they have a degree of control over combine troops. Now, Nihilanth has the ability to do most of these things. Throughout the Xen parts of half life 1, Nihilanth was constantly talking to you, offering some words of encouragement. If you think about it, its pretty impressive for an alien to pick up the English language so quickly, a sign of his and combine advisors similar mental power (albeit Gordon was not the first to go into xen). Also there is Nihilanth's ability to teleport things in and out of xen, a task that more then likely requires mental potential.
Then there is the most obvious similarity between combine advisors and Nihilanth: they both have combine technology attached to them. The combine advisors have hand and what looks like eye attachment, while Nihilanth has a "floaty thing" attached to his ass. Its is undeniable that both of these pieces of tech are of combine origins.
Now, about local teleportation. Its true that the combine are limited to inter-universal teleportation, and that when on earth they are limited to conventional methods of travel. But, Nova prospect had a device that allowed teleportation between Nova prospect and the c17 citadel. How do we know that there aren't more of these devices out there? We don't.
Barnz said somewhere that if Nihilanth had any association with the combine, then why didn't the combine to local teleportation all the time? The answer to this could be that Nihilanth had some ability that other beings or technology didnt. Another, more likely possibility is that at one point there were beings who could do local teleportation, but got extinct. Nihilaneth is quoted saying that he is that last of his kind.
P.S. Mutoid man you're right, I did misspell the crap out of Nihilanth.
no. nihilanth is not a combine advisor. you're stupid. hope this helps.
Care to explain?
In the first part of the factory, there actually aren't any controllers. When you get to the next area, however, there are controllers hovering around and the vorts resume attacking you. I always took that to mean that, in the absence of their masters watching, they wanted to ally with you--despite you having killed several of them up to that point.
When you're on a sinking ship, never underestimate someone's willingness to step on your head so they can stay above water level.
Well, I never thought he was their leader, either. I always thought the Nihilanth was more like a tool: something the controllers made and utilized. Of course, that's a bit out the window now with Laidlaw having said there were more of the Nihilanth's race.
Oh, my bad. I thought I saw controllers in that room the other day when someone was playing. Then yes, in absence of their guards, I'd agree they'd act more like in Half-Life 2. As for the sinking metaphor, would there really be an end to going against each other when fleeing? I'm not sure you need a slave for that, you need help and cooperation. And that's an interesting idea about the Controllers. I wish we had more information on them.
I think it very much is deniable. First of all, I don't think you should ever mistake game engine upgrades and different quality detail with an intentional connection. Use the vortigaunts in Episode One and Two as an example. Even still, his hover chair just looks like a generic piece of shiny, shelled metal to me, with the spiked underframe and reflective texture being its own style, if anything. You could do a few subtle changes to make it strikingly similar though, I agree. But the whole look of him is overlord-related anyway. Just the pale skin, over-sized head, devolved structure and the fact that he's reliant on cyborg additions are enough to suggest his kind has shared similar evolutionary progress over the eons of aggrandized mental power as the overlords, but to me, it doesn't suit the plot that he's Combine. If he was formerly, then it would have to be a long, long time ago.
No, in fact, we're almost certain there are far more. Those combine-tech teleports are specifically noted for how little mass they move, how much energy it needs, how unstable it is and how very long it takes to charge. I think the point is they still consider these teleports as "conventional" methods.
Much like another type of creature, huh?
And he was the last of his kind, and now that he is extinct, the Combine don't share a lot with him, right? In these terms, they are far more separate, excluding the fact that Nihilanth uses a lot more of an organic-gathering manner of immediate, willful teleportation power. That said, however, we don't know much of anything about what the Combine are like in their more natural environments, behind the assimilated curtains.
Yes, we DO know he was NEVER captured, for like the fourth time. For manipulation though, I'd look at the G-Man....
Frankly the difference here between manipulation and captured is somewhat irrelevant. If you want some proof that Nihilanth was at one point either captured or manipulated, I give you this quote: "Their slaves...we are their slaves...we are..." Nihilanth said that, in reference to himself and other inhabitants of xen. Its pretty obvious that he was talking about the combine.
Or possibly the Controllers.
I meant that combine were the ones controlling him.
And I meant the Controllers were the ones controlling him.
Except at the time that line was written and recorded the Combine hadn't even been thought up yet.
And that the Combine didn't (and don't) have access to Xen. That pretty much forms the basis as to why the Vortigaunt's are there at all.
Well we don't know... It could be anyone really. The people we KNOW make slaves are the Combine. We don't know who made who slaves in xen. We don't know if it was the Controllers who controlled the Xen lifeforms, or if it was Nihilanth. In the case that it was Nihilanth, we don't know if Nihilanth is being controlled by the Combine.
Also, don't think of it in the way of developing a game. Maybe when they made the game they meant the controllers were controlling, but now that Half Life 2 has come out it would make perfect sense if they meant the Combine were controlling them. Don't split up Half Life 1 and 2 as if they are games (even though they are). If we are talking about the world of Half Life 1 and 2, don't split them up. Just becaues Valve wasn't planning it to be one way at that time, does not mean that it could not be another way now.
The Nihilanth was not being controlled by the Combine. Pursued, but not controlled.
And it IS important, in this case, to separate HL1's lore from HL2's, because the fact that line was recorded BEFORE the Combine were even a scribble on a notepad at Valve means that there was another party who the Nihilanth was referring to. One already written up. Now, this may have fallen to the wayside, of course, overwritten in the new collective Half-Life universe. But at some point there was another group that had the power to enslave the Nihilanth. Whether that was another alien race, or the controllers, or the G-man's mysterious employers who have also seemingly dropped off the map since HL2, who knows.
Half of this thread is Kyzr crossing his arms over his chest and saying "Just 'cause."
Shut your mouth, mrmrmr8. We don't need another Kyzr around here. It's obvious that Nihilanth was the leader. I don't think the controllers ever had any say in the management.
"Their slaves... we are their slaves... we are..." - I don't know why people keep quoting this. He could be talking about the humans, and how they enslaved them.
mrmrmr8 ignore Barnz, I think he's on his period.
Anywho, I think the main problem has with my theory is that everyone thinks that Valve didn't have the idea of the combine in their heads when they were coming up with half life 1, that they didn't exist at that point. I'll make this as clear as possible.
WE DONT KNOW THAT.
Who's to say that Valve hadn't come up with the combine? Darkside, did you have a chat with Marc Laidlaw where he told you "The combine, no. I came up with them after half life 1." No, no you didn't. So stop assuming things you think are probable.
But to be fair, Valve probably did not have "the combine" when making half life 1, just some third party out there. And to be even fairer, I might be wrong and the third party that Nihilanth is talking about is the GMan. Who knows.
Danimal, care to explain how exactly it is that I'm acting like an arrogent douche?
Lastly, Barnz, if you mean to suggest that humans enslaved Nihilanth and his ilk, then I think you're then one that didn't play the half life games.
Actually, bud, we do know that. It's been stated that Valve wanted there to be a larger threat but they didn't know the exact nature of what it was going to be until they actually sat down after shipping HL and hashed out the story. This is straight from the horse's mouth. Don't ever in your life sass me when it comes to HL, son. I'll put you in the corner with no dinner.
Your source? And don't even try saying its from raising the bar. I've been trying to get a hold of that book for a very long time, but could never scrounge together 120 or so bucks for it. Its the only spot where you might have more knowledge of the game then I do.
And darkside, that bit at the end make me laugh so hard I almost chocked on my sandwich. Not too many people can say that.
There's alien research labs in every corner of Black Mesa, what the hell are you talking about? The science team has been making experiments on aliens for a long time, isn't that clear in the game?
Kyzr, you suck. Laidlaw said they didn't have the idea for the Combine until Half-Life 2 came along. I don't care if you don't follow the interviews, but most people here do.
Unfortunately, I believe there IS a bit in RtB about it, but I don't have the book handy (it's in storage) so I can't double check. But, as Barnz says, Laidlaw mentioned something as well as Doug Lombardi. They knew they wanted a bigger threat, but they didn't know what.
God, I can feel the old days rushing back again. And to think, in less than twenty four hours we might have NEW MATERIAL to argue about. Gives me chills. And it should, after three years...
TAKE THAT, YOU SCUMBAG!
Here's the quote from Lombardi that Laidlaw is referring to:
In my defense, 2005 is when I first played half life, and also when I was 12, so sorry for not following interviews back then. Although the Laidlaw thing blows a good chunk of my theory to hell (Nihilanth is a combine adviser) it kinda sorta supports my idea that valve knew that there was some third party, the combine, but they didnt know that it was the combine, nor did they have any details about them, just a super rough idea of what they are. The quote by Nihilanth about salvery might not be literal as most people take it to be, but Nihilanth might be trying to say that since the combine (or the yet undetermined third party if we're taking about things in terms of pre-hl2) drove him and his kind out of his homeland, then they indirectly enslaved him to being on the run and away from his home.
And Barnz, insult my ideas not me, cause doing otherwise makes you look like a giant douche. Just saying.
p.s. I admit I was wrong.
Nothing wrong with being wrong. Nothing wrong with not following every interview. But, just a friendly tip, you may want to research these things when getting into a debate about them.
And don't worry, any ribbing you get here is just how people are. Don't take it too serious.
I mean I could try and continue arguing my point but screw it. Not after that fatal blow from Barnz.
I ADMIT MY DEFEAT LIKE A MAN.
Wait...I might be interpreting this wrong, but if the threat was left to be determined in half life 2, and the threat in half life 2 is the combine. then chances are the Combine are the threat... I'm not saying it couldn't be anyone else though. Anyways, remember when this thread was about vortiguants?
I agree with you completely, but what darkside brought to my attention is that the combine did not exist in the half life 1 universe, because they weren't thought up by valve yet.
And no, I dont.
mrmrmr8, the Combine are definitely the threat...it's just that said threat wasn't written until after HL shipped.
And they didn't realise they were even going to do a sequel until Half-Life was met with such critical acclaim.
Such are the reasons why things are left open and mysterious. I remember Gabe expressing how slightly
dejected he was for having to start another mega project all over again, but even more mega.
Yeah, I've heard both those quotes so many times over the years that it's surprisingly hard to pinpoint where
they really came from. Especially if it spread so much, to the point where I actually start to regard
it as common sense, forgetting that not everyone else cares as much. I'm so thankful people share and store.
If you're allergic to cynical hellfire, this is the single worst place you can go to say something incorrect about the HL series. At least you didn't put forward a G-Man theory. In the end though, it's also the best place to know what the hell is going on in HL, literally, rhetorically, and metaphysically.
Or at least it was. Poor R&S =(. And Myth.
What I was trying to say all along kinda.
And by the way, I was TWELVE years old when Marc said that, so I had no clue, I only really started following halflife interviews in like 2007.
Screw it, I still think its an interesting theory. Wrong but interesting.
Maybe like vampires bite their victems and turn them into vampires cause they cannot procreate, the Vortigaunts have some special way of reproduction.
Separate names with a comma.