Strong Atheism, or Weak Atheism?

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Max35, Feb 15, 2007.

  1. Mechagodzilla

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    To coin a term, it seems he's a metatheist.
    He worships the concept of belief itself.
     
  2. tehsolace

    tehsolace Newbie

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    I thought his grammar was where the problem lied. Perhaps it was in his very mental skills entirely?
     
  3. Jintor

    Jintor Didn't Get Temp-Banned

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    I keep telling you, he's German. I'm not sure if he's running a program through a translator or what. -_-

    The power of Belief is something I can live with.
     
  4. W4d5Y

    W4d5Y Newbie

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    Nope, I am writitng just the way the way I speak. I tend to have rediculous linguistic capabilities in german as well :'(

    No, way, that, you, can actually live with that, wow. Wouldn't have expected that. I thought you were on science's side o_O?
     
  5. Jintor

    Jintor Didn't Get Temp-Banned

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    I'm a writer/artist at heart. And in some ways religion generally comes down to storytelling. :D
     
  6. W4d5Y

    W4d5Y Newbie

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    You could found a new church! You'd be a great priest of The church of the give-us-some-money-and-we-will-give-u-a-letter-that-releases-you-from-all-sins-for-sure-religion.
    OOooops, I think that idea's already taken :O
     
  7. Mechagodzilla

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    Science isn't a "side". It's reality as we know it.

    And there is a fairly clear line between artistry and religion.
    I'm an artist too, but I don't see the relationship.
    If religion is an art, then it's art in the same way American Idol would be were it somehow crossed with Dragonball Z self-insertion fanfiction.
     
  8. Jintor

    Jintor Didn't Get Temp-Banned

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    I can still believe in the power of belief itself. Belief is what keeps religion running, anyway - belief that somehow, at the end of it all, it all works.

    Belief is powerful, MechaGod. Don't underestimate it.
     
  9. Mechagodzilla

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    I don't underestimate belief any more than I underestimate, say, a feral raccoon.
    Belief, by just about by definition, operates without laws, and that is where its danger lies.

    There is a big difference between belief and optimism, as there is between belief and exploring subjective experience.
    Both those things are laudable.

    But the minute what you believe that something has an impact on the world, you need to back that up belief up with fact. Otherwise, you are doing default harm to scientific progress and to society, as a result.

    This is why I respect most Deists.
     
  10. Jintor

    Jintor Didn't Get Temp-Banned

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    Just wondering, but is belief deadly because it's a catalyst for actions that are deadly?

    Well, not deadly, but you get what I mean. -_-
     
  11. Mechagodzilla

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    The way logic and science work is to determine what knowledge is true. They are the only existing methods of discerning subjective experience from objective reality.
    Logic is, as a result, the only thing that can be agreed upon universally.
    It is the only way to tell sane from insane, criminal from innocent. Functional from broken, etc.
    As a result, it is essential for our survival.

    Illogical beliefs fundamentally cause conflict because no two beliefs are the same. Most declare themselves mandatory and the sole source of goodness, under terms that are absolutely arbitrary.
    Even those that do not invent laws of morality, it still leads to time and resource-wasting claims. How many billions have been spent on the fake medicine of homoepathy, and how many have died from avoiding real treatments? Plenty, for sure. And that's just one of countless examples of waste through false advertisement.

    Artistry involves imagination, as there are ideas in each of our heads which no-one else will see.
    But art is never objective. The things I paint are not real, and it would be a horrible lie to treat them as such.
    All art does is attempt to transmit subjective experience.
    Emphasis on the word "attempt" there, because such transmission can never be anywhere close to fully accurate.
    Hence why we must actively interpret art.

    Belief occurs when subjective is confused with objective, and religion occurs when art is treated as science.
    That confusion of art and reality sounds harmless; we are used to people all around us thinking this way, but just think of the implications.

    Would you declare war based on scientific evidence of a justifiably extreme danger?
    I would hope so, because it makes sense to use smaller conflicts to prevent greater conflicts.

    Now, would you declare a war based on artistic evidence?

    That's obviously retarded. No-one would be justified in doing that.

    And yet that is the exact mindset of around five sixths of earth's population.

    So, to finally get around to answering your question, beliefs and accidents are just about exclusively the sole cause of uneccessary death and other ill.
     
  12. W4d5Y

    W4d5Y Newbie

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    o_O Oh me, that was a nice one.
     
  13. K e r b e r o s

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    You might think it's ridiculous but then again, it's also not your place or your right to think and decide for someone whose culturally, socially, or religiously different from you.
     
  14. Jintor

    Jintor Didn't Get Temp-Banned

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    You've just decided my rights! CONTRADICTION!
     
  15. K e r b e r o s

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    NO! I've decided that none of us have the right to decide for other people. It's facism ... WITH A TWIST!
     
  16. Jintor

    Jintor Didn't Get Temp-Banned

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    A lemony twist?
     
  17. Mechagodzilla

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    That's retarded. Of course we can decide what is right and wrong on an international scale. That's the entire point of objectivity.
    If you're doing something that is quantifiably stupid, of course we can judge you. There's no element of thought control there.
    Here's the basic gist of what you're saying, as acted out in a patented One-Act Play!

    Jimmy: "2 + 2 = 87"

    Me: No Jimmy, the correct answer is "4".

    Kerbero: DO NOT JUDGE JIMMY; JIMMY IS CHINESE AND ALSO A JEWISH PERSON. YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO CONTROL HIS THOUGHTS.

    Jimmy: So it really is 87?

    Kerbero: OF COURSE JIMMY THE ANSWER CAN BE WHATEVER YOUR IMAGINATION SAYS IT CAN BE. NOW YOU ARE THE GREATEST MIND THE WORLD OF MATH HAS EVER KNOWN.

    Jimmy: Hooray, I will be a genius!

    (Jimmy flunks out of every school he attends.)

    Jimmy: Hey, you made me flunk out of school! I'll kill you!

    Kerbero: NO JIMMY DO NOT MURDER ME; MURDER IS NOT THE ANSWER!

    Jimmy: It's not your place or your right to think and decide for someone religiously different from you!

    (Kerbero is stabbed eighty-seven times.)

    Kerbero: OH! I DIE!

    THE END
     
  18. tehsolace

    tehsolace Newbie

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    lmao mecha good analogy.

    i also loved the *stabbed 87 times* part :D
     
  19. Sulkdodds

    Sulkdodds Companion Cube

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    Oof, caustic.

    I want to set up a grudge match between Mechagodzilla and Discordianism.

    This is the really important bit.
     
  20. W4d5Y

    W4d5Y Newbie

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    ^That reminds me of the way the Palestine soil was regarded...It somehow appears the isrealis finally have errected a weird contradiction, so they complain about how there are powers facing them with hostile intent, while not having thought about confrontation with others' interests in the first place, making it kinda unrational the way how they were prepared for what was to occur in the further future...:'(
    So it's like "(isrealis flunk out of israel); Hey, you made us flunk out of palestine! You bastards!!! It's all your fault!!!"
     

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