Discussion in 'Half-Life' started by Rossjg, Oct 14, 2006.
He wouldn't do that. It'd restrict him in the future. Besides, he probably doesn't know.
Well of course he doesn't have to give away everything. He could just fix the inconsistencies and state what's canon or not. He can state a lot of things without betraying himself. And if he doesn't know some stuff, he's the writer, and he should decide and establish the blurry stuff once and for all. I don't see why giving the right dates for HL1 and HL2 would be a problem. Of course, for Portal, it'd be too early. Come on Marc, give some consistency to this darn great universe!
If you state what you think is inconsistent, I'm sure we can try and sort you out.
Well for example he should definitely state if the 3 HL1 expansions are canon or not and who's Barney Calhoun after all. If we meet him in HL1 or if the guy in BS is the same person. And say who delivered the test sample after all. If Breen chose it, and Gina Cross brought it to the test chamber, where does G-Man fit? Things like that. There are also some official dates, and they doesn't seem to fit well. Silly to say "200-" to complicate everything while we know there's a real date, as this universe is consistent for the most part. And I read on "The Half-Life Saga Story Guide" that the timeline available on this website was said to be "pretty darn accurate for the most part", according to Laidlaw himself. So, I think he has at least a rough timeline in his vault, and I hope he shares it with us one day.
The Expansion packs are not canon. Which sorts out the rest of your little "inconsistancies".
Barney Calhoun is a security guard. You meet him in Half-Life. He's the guy in Blue Shift. Decay was 'withdrawn'. It's not canon. Most people haven't even played it.
I believe the initial "pretty darn accurate" comment was relayed by someone here, based on something I'd said the first time I saw it, which was shortly after Half-Life 2 went live. I honestly have not looked at it since that time, so I don't exaclty know what it states at this point.
As for the Decay, the background story of the game is somewhat connected with the Episode Two's story, so I don't understand how you can say it's not canon.
Druckles, what do you mean "withdrawn"?... (and I know Barney Calhoun is a security guard)
test, it's a quote from Laidlaw? Where did you find it?...
My friend, Marphy_Black mailed him (while ago) and got the reply.
I mean they stopped distributing it. You asked who Barney was.
I asked who Barney was, but it seems that the Barney from HL2 is not the Barney from BS, so I wanted it to be clarified.
And Mr Laidlaw answers quite fast to the e-mails! I didn't have his address so I sent a mail to Gabe Newell, and Laidlaw answered this about the timeline that can be found on The Half-Life Saga Story Guide:
Quite weird at the end.
I think you can just take Barney from HL2 as being the essence of all the HL barneys and Calhoun from BS combined into a character, rather than just being a single one of them, in the same way that Magnusson is really made up of two scientists from HL, A: the casarole one and B: the one that says "Gordon doesn't need to hear all this."
Well, it's a big inconsistency. There can be only one Magnusson and one Barney. The game limitations back in 1998 must be retconned. The Black Mesa (Source) devs will make sure of this, fortunately.
This drives me crazy.
People don't seem to get that the story isn't written. It's BEING written.
Things are changing.
Let me put it this way:
Walter/Einstein. The scientist with the Bozo-the-Clown style white hair and the mustache.
Currently, he's just a character model that appears every so often in HL1. Sometimes he's dead, sometimes he's getting killed, sometimes he's escaping... he's just a character model. Many, many different characters but always the same model and voice. Get me? That's all he is. No back story, no importance to HL2, nothing. Just a model.
Now... Let's say Marc has a story arc he needs to tie up, either that or he wants to throw in some homage to HL1. All of the sudden, Walter becomes a real character!! He's given a real first and last name, and he's also given a history.
YOU CANNOT TAKE ANYTHING THAT OCCURRED WITH HIS CHARACTER MODEL IN HL1 AND APPLY IT TO HL2 UNLESS MARC LAIDLAW DRAWS THOSE DIRECT CONCLUSIONS.
For example, let's say Marc did decide that the Barney knocking on the locked door at the opening of HL1 is the Barney from HL2. Let's say that you happened to follow that Barney, and he eventually got killed. That does NOT CHANGE THE FACT THAT MARC SAID IT'S THE SAME BARNEY.
Half-Life's story was NOT written with Half-Life 2 in mind AT ALL. Ok? Get over it. You're not going to find references to HL2 in HL1 no matter how hard you look, not unless Marc wrote in parts of HL2 to tie back into the already existing HL1 story.
Ok, ok, don't get mad!
Of course they were just models back then, but Laidlaw decided who exactly were Eli and Kleiner between all the black and glasses scientists, so if he says that Blue Shift is not canon, he hasn't decided who was the HL2 Barney among all these gards. And it would make sense that he's the guy knocking at the door. Laidlaw has just to state it, and I'll be glad.
As this story is being written, as you say, I hope Laidlaw will take time one day to fix what needs to be fixed.
Seeing the Barney knocking at the door being killed would have given an big inconsistency for HL2. And since he's the only one we didn't see dead, I think Laidlaw took that in account, but he's too pissed off by Gearbox and their changes and their Race-X, so that's why he didn't make any references to the Gearbox extensions (yet... for we know Newell likes Shephard, so we'll see).
Um... nothing needs to be fixed. And if you're referring to ironing out uncertainties:
I just want him to state if the Gearbox expansions are canon or not (and I hope they are - or at least BS), and give us the actual date of the HL1 events (not "200-"), and I'll be contented.
Marc Laidlaw is much more content watching you squirm as you devise your own crackpot theories.
But he won't. If you're not happy with this, then go away. The rest of us are content with that. Why the hell does it matter?? Does it affect your gameplay?
Seeing Freeman from another point of view is the only thing I needed in OP4 and BS.
Hey don't get mad at me! I like consistent universes, that's all. It makes them more real and more enjoyable.
Well I'm not mad. Looks that way because of how I type, but I could really care less. Either way, Laidlaw himself said that the idea of "canon" is something that fans came up with and that he will not give himself the restrictions that "canon" would give him. Again, the story is still being developed, it may turn out that Gordon made love to a black woman and that Alyx is really his daughter. Yes I know that's a ridiculous idea, but if Laidlaw chose to do that, he could. If he were to try and stick to the fans' idea of what is canon, he couldn't.
You're still not getting the point. What I'm saying is that it doesn't matter what happened in HL1. The dead can live, the alive could die... it doesn't make a difference if you were to see the door knocking Barney die eventually, Laidlaw could simply exclude that reality from the current story line. It's HIS choice what to include and what not to include.
In HL1, you heard many references to "The Administrator".
Up until the year 2003, that's all he was. "The Administrator". Walace Breen didn't exist in any way, shape, or form.
Fast forward to 2004, HL2 is created, and Laidlaw went back and said "Hmm, a great story tie in would be to give that nameless Black Mesa Administrator a name and a story... that would solidify the universe, since we didn't give it the fore-thought when we made HL1".
Get it, yet? Barney from HL2 is comprised of every single Barney in HL1.
The Barney knocking on the door isn't the one that offered me a beer... in fact, the last time I played it, the Barney that told me he'd buy me a beer was shortly thereafter killed by a Zombie. I also saw Barney get cut in half with a laser right after the Resonance Cascade.
I'm pretty sure I saw Kleiner get eaten by the Itchyosaur, as well. I think he also got killed by the MERCS.
You have to keep in mind that HL1 was a complete story in an of itself. That was it. No fore thought was given to the story of HL2 or any other game. They've retroactively adapted the HL2 story to fit with the HL1 story, therefore giving the impression that both games are bonded.
Ok, the Kleiner model, not the real guy called Isaac who was Gordon's mentor at MIT and who is seen in HL2. Laidlaw decided in 2004 who was exactly Kleiner, just as he did for Eli. That's why for the Black Mesa mod all the scientist will be changed and the Kleiner and Eli model will be since only once. So the devs take that in account, just I'd like to. So, as we know now exactly who is Kleiner in HL1, it's a bit different. Different we're still not sure who is the real Barney, and even if you say they're all Barneys, well, they're not, there's only one Barney, now that Laidlaw tied the stories and retconned it.
I know that, of course! That's why we see Barney, Kleiner and the others being killed all the time.
So I'll forget about canon for a while, even though the overall canon is working. The universe has his laws and Laidlaw quite respects them.
(sorry if I seem to be a bit silly, but maybe I don't get everything you say since English actually is not my native language)
my point ------------------------------------------------------------ you
Just so you know. Walter is the Kleiner model, not the Einstein model.
^Someone will just go ballistic for this previous post. I just know someone will.
Jesus christ are you the new serial rezzer? Check the date of threads before you post dude.
Have there been bigger rez's before?
This was about... 3 years?
I think I could do better(, and get punished for it).
I got more replies from him:
Whatever happened to the HEV suit helmet from Half Life 1?
While it protected Gordon’s head from radiation, toxic waste, headcrabs, etc., it caused a really bad case of helmet-hair. So he conveniently lost it
LM on Half-Life 3:
Thanks for your letter. Whatever we do next, I think we all expect it to be better than we’ve done before. It would be very hard to go on if we didn’t feel we were continually improving. And while we don’t want to repeat ourselves, it could be argued that HL1 and HL2 are very different, and that whatever happens next in the HL series can be very different from the preceding games but still be very good. That’s my hope anyway.
LM on playable Alyx:
I personally don't see how that would work. Alyx is a creation of animation and audio. If you were to play Alyx, you wouldn't see any of her animations, and her motivations are (I think) more interesting when they are her own, and somewhat mysterious. But perhaps there would be some way to do this.
From : Marc Laidlaw <firstname.lastname@example.org>
Sent : June 18, 2006 5:45:15 PM
To : <email@example.com>
CC : "Valve" <firstname.lastname@example.org>
Subject : Concerned
Many of us, including myself, are big fans of the truly funny Concerned--but that's not a Concerned reference. Lots of the citizens in City 17 considered Dr. Breen's broadcasts and announcements to be his "show." I figure that from time to time he broke out of the lecture format and provided a bit more in the way of entertainment. I personally missed the jugglers episode, but the citizens have been talking about it ever since.
LM on Laszlo:
I was thinking about that scene myself last night as I drifted off to sleep. It made me weep. That’s just how I react to the loss of the finest mind of a generation. So, um, yeah, I guess it is a little bit significant when such greatness leaves the world. It’s good to know you appreciated Laszlo.
Yours in the Fellowship of Laszlophilia,
LM on Adrian Shephard:
Thanks for your letter. Adrian Shepard is a bit like Schrodinger?s cat?he?s neither canon nor non-canon, depending on whether or not the G-Man may or may not have a use for him.
X: Dear Mr. Newell,
To get straight to the point since I bet you're probably doing something 'important,' I'm working on a canon-based "Half Life 2 Alpha/Beta Leak" roleplaying community for GMod 10. As of right now, everyone believes that the official currency within Half Life 2 is "tokens", I don't know where they got it from but, if you could please confirm it or deny it for me, it would be great
Also if you'd be alright, I've wanted to just ask a few more questions so I can get it right for once, I've always hated people using their own concepts and titling it "canon".
Anyhow, as a community leader, I understand how much of a pain it is to respond to emails, it's probably a thousand times worse for you but I want to say thank you very much for being involved with your fan-base, I have to say, your team is the only development studio I can actually respect.
Thank you for your time.
It’s a fair question. I don’t recall coming down hard on an answer in the game itself, so I don’t want to make something up now. If you don’t hear specific reference to tokens in conversation, then it’s hard to justify their existence. There may well be token slots on vending machines, etc…but in fact if you push the button for a can of Breen’s Private Reserve, it appears to be free of charge. Citizens are given or issued basic standard clothing and food, so it seems like the Combine don’t encourage currency in their dealings with humans, and among citizens there may be something more like a barter economy. For your roleplay, you should come up with whatever generates interesting gameplay. I don’t see any egregious conflict with the game.
He responds to fan mail?
According to the commentary Gabe Newell "Doesn't respond to all of it, but he does read all of it."
mark's insane if he reads ALL of them. there must be thousands, or at least hundreds, a DAY
ooh, that's a good question for him, ask him what his average # of letters are each day. I wonder if it's smaller then we think.
It might be a manageable amount, if you have to address it personally. Most fans don't know the names of the lead designers of their games, much less lowly writers.
Heh, it's weird how you're discussing this as if it's all new when it's roughly three years old.
You sent those? I'm sure you noticed most of them are already in the thread page. You've posted them a
few times and I collected a few I saw so as to be put here, and here you are just missing it. Thanks for the messages
Anyway, good to see. Interesting reads
Yeah, I collect them in one gigantic, folder. They're not mine (I only send Happy Birthday messages to Laidlaw, every year).
Birthday? Goodness, when's his birthday?
Actual beggining of HL stryline
Sorry to interrupt any discussions on designer's birthdays. I was wondering if anyone has figured out the exact year that HL1 starts? I have a pretty good idea based on evidence I'll post, but I was wondering if any else knows when it was?
sorry if this has been posted before, I couldn't find it.
It is deliberately obscured, in the manual among other places.
I almost feel like, given HL2's ambiance and the extensiveness of Black Mesa, Half-Life takes place in an alternate history where the Soviet Union was much more robust and long-lived, and the U.S. had responded in kind, pouring defense dollars into Star Wars projects and maintaining the blackest of Black Ops to kill its own citizens.
that is an interesting idea, but i was talking year. If you look at the calendar in HL1, it is December (on ALL the calendars in Black Mesa) this indicates that the calendar is correct, an not behind. Even in Opposing Force, the calendar is December. The 1st of Dec is either a Monday or Tuesday (the calendar is hard to read.) If this is true, and HL1 is somewhere between 1990 and 2020, it could only have been 1992, 97, 98, 2003, 08, 09, 14, 15, or 2020.
If the manual says 200- AD, then it has to have been 2003, 2008, or 2009.
- seven numbers in row #1
- seven numbers in row #2
- six numbers in row #3
- six numbers in row #4
- four numbers in row #5
I do not see this calender in any way being accurate.
Separate names with a comma.