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Discussion in 'Politics' started by ríomhaire, Jun 25, 2016.
you lads ****ed up
God Bless the UK for finally putting the UK first.
Eagerly awaiting November here in the USA when we will MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN.
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I didn't do shit, I voted in.
far right, xenophobic, bigotry and racists have risen it seems in England after all. The problem with the EU is it was not designed to allow those who enter it, can never leave. So yes the EU was a mess before brexit and staying to fix it is critical. Voting to leave, only makes it worse...terrifying actually.
Yanis Varoufakis, quotes from the guardian;
Leave won because too many British voters identified the EU with authoritarianism, irrationality and contempt for parliamentary while too few believed those of us who claimed that another EU was possible
The only man with a plan is Germany’s finance minister. Schäuble recognises in the post-Brexit fear his great opportunity to implement a permanent austerity union. Under his plan, eurozone states will be offered some carrots and a huge stick. The carrots will come in the form of a small eurozone budget to cover, in some part, unemployment benefits and bank deposit insurance. The stick will be a veto over national budgets.
If I am right, and Brexit leads to the construction of a permanent austerian iron cage for the remaining EU member states, there are two possible outcomes: One is that the cage will hold, in which case the institutionalised austerity will export deflation to Britain but also to China (whose further destabilisation will have secondary negative effects on Britain and the EU).
Another possibility is that the cage will be breached (by Italy or Finland leaving, for instance), the result being Germany’s own departure from the collapsing eurozone. But this will turn the new Deutschmark zone, which will probably end at the Ukrainian border, into a huge engine of deflation (as the new currency goes through the roof and German factories lose international markets). Britain and China had better brace themselves for an even greater deflation shock wave under this scenario.
The horror of these developments, from which Britain cannot be shielded by Brexit, is the main reason why I, and other members of DiEM25, tried to save the EU from the establishment that is driving Europeanism into the ground. I very much doubt that, despite their panic in Brexit’s aftermath, EU leaders will learn their lesson. They will continue to throttle voices calling for the EU’s democratisation and they will continue to rule through fear. Is it any wonder that many progressive Britons turned their back on this EU?
While I remain convinced that leave was the wrong choice, I welcome the British people’s determination to tackle the diminution of democratic sovereignty caused by the democratic deficit in the EU. And I refuse to be downcast, even though I count myself on the losing side of the referendum.
As of today, British and European democrats must seize on this vote to confront the establishment in London and Brussels more powerfully than before. The EU’s disintegration is now running at full speed. Building bridges across Europe, bringing democrats together across borders and political parties, is what Europe needs more than ever to avoid a slide into a xenophobic, deflationary, 1930s-like abyss.
**Foot notes, reworded advice from yanis, he says it much better than me. I try and i am amazed at this new vocabulary since spending the last 15 months reading what he and other economists have to say**
Unfortunately not enough Europeans know this or care to be admonished of really good ideas.
America used to have influence over Europe politicians but this also has reseeded, despite them still having the most influence in the IMF, the US also unfortunately has its own problems, one that is ungovernable.
Its a simple as that, you have now a record high for congress vetoing the white house and a white house vetoing congress. But at least in america's economy, it has the shock absorbers, to prepare and stabilise them for when a financial crisis hits.
This is a post 2008 society, europe hasn't recovered from the 2008 crash, germany and france haven't decided what they want to do with the EU, it was created without a central bank behind the fed and no fed backing up the central bank. The central banks in Germany are in complete denial about being insolvent if they weren't, the 2008 financial crisis would of ended in 2010-2011, so this isn't the case.
Look im saying this to you, because you should never look to economists to predict when these would happen, economists have never predicted most of the crashes the world has seen.
However when you have the greatest failure of democracy unfolding before you in peacetime. Future societies in some ancient ruin a 100 years from now will ponder and investigate to how they got it so wrong.
It's easy to see the ensuing vortex that is gaining strength, when we're heading straight into its abyss unless we speak up. Britian just gave europe a big push in that direction and likely the rest of the world as well.
It's like if God was real and would return to cast his wrath on those who sin, you never know when he would do that. It's wise to prepare for that. Economists of this age are like priests with equations
Ahh, politics sub-forum. It's been a while!
My english stepmom is extremely upset about it. The whole issue seems a bit surreal to me.
Holy shit I forgot you existed... what hole did you crawl back out of?
We're about a decade past the Politics forum's shitposting glory days but it's nice to know it still exists.
they should be upset, it has sped up the European democracy disintegration and the only ones to benefit from that are the xenophobes and nazis and trumps and far right politicians.
But there is hope, the far left labor in UK is reforming as members of the labor government, for months were looking for a window to oust jeremy corbyn they were going to do this in september but the brexit vote just speeded up their opportunity.
We know. I voted Remain, though. It's not just the economic problems or the rise in hate crime that concerns me, watching UK Parliament eat itself has been fairly terrifying. Neither the party in power nor the opposition actually have any proper leadership right now, it's all backstabbing, resignations and contests.
The whole thing is just a backfired and very expensive Tory coup. I firmly believe Boris Johnson didn't want or expect the Leave campaign to actually win. Best scenario for him would have been a narrow Remain victory so that we didn't have to leave the EU but at the same time he could claim the narrow margin as weakness in David Cameron and gun for his job. He didn't get that and now he's not running for PM.
- Cameron called the referendum to silence backbenchers in the party, expecting to win.
- Johnson took the opposing side to Cameron to challenge his leadership, expecting to lose narrowly.
- Both men made a massive mistake, didn't get the result needed, and then ran away from the responsibility.
- Cameron stepped down without executing the leaving of the EU (the much discussed triggering of 'Article 50') and left a poisoned chalice of responsibility for someone else to drink.
- Johnson said "Hell no, I'm not touching that now" and pulled out of his challenge.
And here we are. Markets in chaos. House of Commons in complete disarray. Racists emboldened and feeling legitimised by the Leave campaign's victory. What a mess.
correct and your societies will get nastier. Not just from citizen to citizen but also country to country. Only thing you can do now is move for a Norwegian style position in the market place. Anyway prefer to just read professor's of economics comments, like Joseph Stieglitz and Yanis Varoufakis. Yanis's blog is very good.
But look one thing that is clear, any government has to do what the USA does, thats postive investment. Invest in green technology, invest in education, infrastructure like communications and most importantly invest in people, production they output.
Look at the smart phone their is technology in there that began from a from a government grant.
You should be doing this all the time and never stopping to cut costs so to save yourself from the debt. Firstly Debt is easily paid off thru the returns of investment which is much higher than from other methods, investment is king. Stieglitz did studies in the US on this, the returns were far greater (he preaches investment fyi)
Cutting costs only slowly raise the debt pile.
Its a joke when governments each year, decide to cut costs because their not fooling anyone and they spin their wheels preaching why cut costs is the way, it never was. They think by forcing the university cleaner girls to take a paycut or get rid them all together in someway reduces the debt pile, is ludicrous!
So if they do B and not A, you know their lying. To us on the internet we know better.
And what happened to jeremy corbyn, members of his labor cabinet were just looking for a opportunity to edge him out, they tried this earlier in april-may but Jeremy pulled thru quite successfully and they were going to try again sometime in September but the brexit vote just sped up their attack.
So he's not done yet and this is the thing we all get frustrated alot by mps making stupid decisions like this, they dont have a mandate from us/you, to do this.
Much like the winning example Germany's finance minister does not have a mandate to destroy EU member states economy to force them out of the EU.
Gabe newell said this politely, i just amped it up.
It is frustrating when politicians try to put a spin on things as if they not going to get caught. But it does mean i will vote to tear up democracy and vote for less of it. No, voting for more robust democracy without those people who should never be politicians, ei most politicians. Except the most elite of radical left.