I need the assistance of the community

Discussion in 'Half-Life' started by Gabe Newell, Oct 2, 2003.

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  1. Gort

    Gort Guest

    I agree with Bramski, and I think D00M and Skunk are out to lunch. Yes, Skunk, let's consider facts:

    Valve is a game company. Someone STOLE the source code, in apparently a very sophisticated way.

    "Letting down the community" by running late on a GAME (which they're sweating over for YOU, and which is looking AMAZING), is nothing compared to how the company could go out of business if someone can make pirated copies off the source code.

    In the years I've worked in video games, nothing baffles me more than people who harbor such bitterness against a company whose boards they post to, and whose products they devour.

    Gabe has reached out to all of us. It's a humbling moment. They could all sink because of this, and he knows it. There might be no HL3. He needs our help to find a needle in a haystack -- or, to be precise, a prick.
     
  2. Jaiph

    Jaiph Guest

    I for one would really like this spree to start ASAP.....the stupidity level of this thread is not abating.
     
  3. killahsin-[CE]

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    yet you will buy the game worship it and curse at the cheats that come out of the source being leaked. You and your kind of personality crack me up.

    this doesnt hurt valve as much as it hurts you the gamer.
     
  4. Towers

    Towers Guest

    The whole steam thing, the delay. It does make you feel happy in a way that this has happened to valve. After being constantly told that it's hitting 30th then to be delayed 4 days before it's 'release'?
    In a way I do feel sorry for Valve but in another way I am also smug. Can't help it but that's just how I feel.
     
  5. Paradox

    Paradox Newbie

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    With respect the response to this thread proves you wrong. Of course Valve should and are reporting the theft to the authorities I’ve no doubt. But while I was angry about how the delay was handled, I will still do anything I can to help Valve track the thief down.
     
  6. threedaysdwn

    threedaysdwn Guest

    Oh god another wannabe linux zealot. Netscape is a piece of shit. Opera is run by assholes. If you don't like Outlook/OE at least get a real email client like eudora.

    But seriously, Outlook is a great program. I use outlook 2003 everyday to check my email. It's the most efficient mail reader I've used, and it also works wonders as a PIM. Naturally you have to keep it up-to-date in terms of security patches like any commonly-targetted program.

    This guy was only speculating that it was an Outlook exploit that infected his system. He really has no clue. Obviously he's completely security inept or he would've caught whoever was mucking with his system by now.
     
  7. Incidentally, if GN's description of the hack is correct and the intruder covered his tracks, up to, of course, using remote "zombies" via a busy public terminal somewhere far from his place of residence, it all points to a skilled and well prepared hack. Industrial espionage? ;) Nah, at least I don't think so - but it would look like a work of someone of high skill and caliber, a modern Kev Mitnick or Phyber Optik. They obviously wouldn't post the "loot" to the public, though - but I guess it was the person's way of showing that the hack was actually true.

    Or I may be mistaken and it could have been a 13 year old exploit user who got lucky and will get unlucky. But judging by the original description in the thread and the comments on Slashdot, it seems too well orchestrated and executed to be a work of a script kiddie. If it was a new Mitnick, maybe one day we'll see a recreation of this hack in the movie "Takedown II". ;)
     
  8. crazyspike

    crazyspike Guest

    U guys are really cruel saying that they deserve to have this happen to them, I was reading an interview the otherday that said gabe and the rest of the developers of halflife invested there profits from halflife into halflife 2 essentially funding the game themselves and taking a HUGE risk just so they could make this game properly instead of having to leave stuff out like the last game due to publishers wanting the game out ASAP.

    If this becomes a problem for Valve it could mean the END OF VALVE as its there money riding on this one and not some HUGE publisher.

    Peace guys
     
  9. bate18

    bate18 Newbie

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    Very good point!
     
  10. Washuu

    Washuu Newbie

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    thinking logically, and realistically, and dont jump to conclusions. valve is a business, and they want to make money.
    they will release hl2, because they want to make money..

    steam isnt really that final, so it is still a test software, plus its for free right now, and u cant expect there going to put everything into it.

    valve probably had alot on there minds, then small very unlikely security breaches.
     
  11. Dais

    Dais Guest

    Oh, wow...

    You can actually shorten the thread by deleting posts?

    Neat. Why not trim it all except for Gabe's post, since he's likely not going to reply to any questions asked?
     
  12. DigitalAssassin

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    Actually, with HL2 almost finished, it is highly unlikely that there will be any financial difficulties from this. It may cost Valve some $$, but nothing serious. This game is going to sell, and going to sell big. "END OF VALVE" as you put it is extremely unlikely.
     
  13. BoNeLeSS

    BoNeLeSS Guest

    good luck gabe... some ppl in the comunnty still have faith in VALVe..

    Hackers cant replicate the contente of the game at this point... if u have some money wait a year... make a DX9.1 game, abetter engine... with better npcs and better netcode... i'll be waiting...
     
  14. pk1209

    pk1209 Newbie

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    still seems to me that if the source had not been copied, and the attack had never taken place, we'd all be sitting here playing half life 2 right now. All you peeps saying valve deserved it need to wake up to the fact that the attack is the most likely reason for a delay...
     
  15. daver

    daver Guest

    Call the FBI

    Unauthorized access to computers is a Federal crime. I hope the FBI tracks this person(s) and locks them up for a very long time. VALVe should take the extra time to alter any network compression and communication to render the source useless.

    If this is responsible for the game being delayed and you know the person responsible, punch them in the mouth very hard for me. Then call the FBI.
     
  16. D33

    D33 Newbie

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    Right, myself and Rec have gone though this thread deleting all insults, flame posts, flame replies, posts saying this is fake, etc, etc. There's a couple left but they aren't serious.

    Now.. to bed ;(

    *mumbles* 3am *mumbles*
     
  17. killahsin-[CE]

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    Re: they diserved that

    i'm not going to flame you at all actually. One can understand the frustrations and anger over the delay and stall tactics of valve. The problem is saying they deserved this is just admitting you don't understand the total implications of what has happend.

    You may never see half life 2 or the half life 2 u have seen in videos now because of this. There are many many implications now, you may not see half life 2 for up to a year now. You may get half life 2 as you have seen it, and a malicious attack might immediatly be launched on YOUR computer. you may get half life 2 go onlien and be raped by someone using invisble god mode uber flying cheats. The implications can just go ona nd on, dependant on whatw as inside the partial source that was leaked.

    please before u flame, or decide that delay and stall tactics justified whatw as done, understand whatw as actually done.
     
  18. TabUK

    TabUK Guest

    u just have to wonder wat other trouble valve can get into here, i've been told there is licensed code from other companies in the leak, companies who will be pissed that thier code is now public becuz u have to wonder, when licensing somthing, do u agree to keep the 'product' secure?, also the hl2 'technology' as it were is now a free for all for all dev. companies be funny if doom 3 now gets a few months delay whilst they impliment some new features eh ;)

    also whoever said valve will lose millions from pirates, wake up and smell the coffee, without the source this game will be cracked within 30 mins of it hitting the shelves..games with massive titles get massive 'group' interest...however i doubt this will affect valve much, cd keys are a pretty good way to deter piracy from internet games (altho those wanting just the single player bit who want copies will get em) but the cd key system is great for MP, if your key is in use from some key gen user, u report it, u get a new key, old one gets banned.


    *edit*

    its the cheats that worry me, aparently ,steam etc network protocols are also included, either we got massive cheaters or valves got some more work to do :(, i was quite looking forward to hl2 eating my system alive too ;(

    one thing is for sure, its long hours and no :cheers: for the valve guys..
     
  19. Blud Stane

    Blud Stane Guest

    they'll make their money on the game not the engine ;)
     
  20. Valve / Gabe:

    I only wish that I could offer you help to nab the person who stole your code. Unfortunately I cannot, nor do I have the resources to dig.

    But, as a fan of HL1 and good FPS games in general, rest assured this fan will be happy buying the box the day it's released. (Video card pending)
     
  21. Goombatommy

    Goombatommy Newbie

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    We're all with you Gabe & Valve. We'll get em'.
     
  22. CyanEyed

    CyanEyed Newbie

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    How can people be so cruel to valve? Do you honestly believe that valve does not care about the gaming community? Do you think that they are delaying HL2 to make more money? If they were in it for the money, they would have said that they were going to release HL2 during the holiday season back at E3. But no, valve has been working their tails off to try and get HL2 out on the 30th of September. Now their source code has been leaked. Now they have a hell of a lot more work to do. So on top of them trying to fix steam, get a perfect HL2 out the door, and hunting down these hackers, you come out and rub it in that they were unable to release HL2 on the 30th. That’s real mature and understanding of you.

    Why don’t you try and see it from their point of view: They’re under pressure from thousands if not hundreds of thousands of gamers eagerly waiting to play HL2. Three weeks before the release, they shift their attention to potential hackers coming in and trying to steal what they’ve been working on since late 1998. With this going on, a September 30th release seems impossible. Not to mention, steam is coming out soon, and they have to prepare to convert the entire half-life world over to steam. The steam final ends up in catastrophe, now it gets complicated. Three things to worry about. Valve then releases a brand new steam, constantly updating and preparing for HL2s release.

    Steam still does not operate the way they want it to. It obviously is not ready for sending HL2 to thousands of gamers worldwide who want it over steam, and who knows what bugs they are still working out for HL2. They know that if they release HL2 with steam the way it is, it will have been the biggest mistake they ever make, that some of the people that download via steam may not be able to play at all due to bugs until a week or so after they buy it. We all know how much trouble we had with steam with CS/DOD/TFC. A week before the release, valve finally gives in to all the trouble they are having. They realize they can not handle so much at once. They are forced to delay HL2. They learn from their mistakes and do not give an exact release date. This way all problems they encounter will not be so critical.

    Valve has always tried to put itself on the same level as us. They reply to so many emails its ridiculous, none of us would reply to that many.

    So before mocking Valve about how they failed to release HL2 on the ‘promised date,’ understand what their going through.

    On a side note, it’s not nice to make fun of someone when they ask for help. That’s like firing at someone waving a white flag.
     
  23. crazyspike

    crazyspike Guest

    Halflife 2 was almost finished it may have to spend months more in development now because of the leaked code that is an expenditure Valve will not have forseen, also the coding for the cd key generation system is within the code all of that will have to be re-written and then there is also the chance that the multiplayer maybe full of cheats due to leaked source code.

    The ultimate bad note is if the code contained the havoc engine which is possible, that leaves them open to litigation from the owners for making the code public due to negligence in security on there part.

    There are hundreds of variables that have been brought up by the release of this code which could as I said spell the demise of Valve, this is something I dont want to see happen and in my original post I was only stating that it was uncalled for when people where saying Valve deserved it.
     
  24. Selig

    Selig Guest

    I read today on a japenese website that said, its possible that 3d realms hacked into Valve because they needed a new graphics engine to run Duke Nukem 4ever, and lost the funds to do so.. and resorted to this.
     
  25. OCybrManO

    OCybrManO Newbie

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    That depends on the kind of license.

    If it is a relatively small one-time fee... then they will probably make very little money from games based on Source compared to the amount they make from HL2.

    If it is a percent of every copy sold... then there is potential for quite a large amount of cash from other games based on Source.
     
  26. TabUK

    TabUK Guest

    granted but the benchmark that hl2 will be will get surpassed much much quicker i mean stuff like the AI, if the code is there for that, then thats one great feature of hl2 in somthing else and maybe tweaked up a little...i guess they should be happy no media got leaked (wellexcept the testmap thingy lol)
     
  27. KrazyGlue

    KrazyGlue Guest

    I agree with him here. The mature mebers of this and other communities will stand with you no matter how long and help in any way we can
     
  28. bate18

    bate18 Newbie

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    halflifesource.com is having an interview with gabe on monday, we may get some serious answers then
     
  29. TabUK

    TabUK Guest

    i have it on good authority there is some havoc stuff in there, and some other licensed stuff (i was told about 9meg)

    On a side note here, doesn't this just bring home how huge half life is, i mean forums are on fire with this news chins are wagging, its pretty insane over a game, lets just hope this one lasts like 5 years like hl has:bounce:
     
  30. pblse

    pblse Newbie

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    Everyone cool down, sure it's the source and a big blunder of Valve to apparently have the development on an unpatched machine (exactly what OE bug is he talking about ? That preview pane thing was years ago)

    But, here's the thing, this is the engine which may be serious enough but it's not like you can get the game out of the source because NO maps have been leaked and no artwork, no music not anything but the source !

    So, this really doens't mean anything except that Valve have some serious soulsearching to do about how things could go so horribly wrong,

    And, it does sound strange, Valve, one of the best game developers in the world having their source on an unpatched machine apparently without antivirus software and without any firewall.

    I'm very close to agreeing with people saying that this is some hoax but I guess everyone make mistakes, hey parts of the WinXP source was leaked from MS during it's development so apparently these things happen.

    But, like I said, it's not the game, it may affect some secrets Vavle wanted to keep secret but what can they do, they will just loose more if they would decide to delay the game or scrap it because of this.
     
  31. Valve Agent

    Valve Agent Guest

    I hope to god they find the creep whois responsible for this mess. But its pretty difficult to find the culprit at this stage but who knows maybe they will slip.
     
  32. riceman

    riceman Guest

    Let me preface my post with this. I could care less if Half Life is delayed. I'm not a fanboi, nor do I really care about the game more than an interest in buying it, playing it and having a good time. My life revolves around more things than HL2 and I think I can live without the game for an extra 30, 90, 120, days. I also think it is ignorant for anyone to think that Valve is going lose any money off of this. As for griefing and cheats? Well, I guess they're feeling like idiots for not supporting PunkBuster.

    All those millions they got from ATI and couldn't spend a lick of it on decent security systems, or competant persons to run them? If they were compromised like they claimed then they got what they deserved. Especially if Gabe's email account was the cause of it. Shame on them.

    Furthermore, would any of you trust Valve to keep your STEAM account information secure. Yah... right. Their source code got stolen off their systems and they want us to trust them with any personal information?

    I think Gabe should spend less time jerking ATI off and more time convincing the community that we're not going to get screwed like they did.

    On a side note, anyone wonder if STEAM client source code was in there to? Probably. I'm not going to Multiplay HL2 any time soon. Good tactic on Valve's part though; sucking up to the community historically works.

    -Riceman
     
  33. kaio

    kaio Guest

    Oh my fudnick. I think I need a tissue after reading that *sniffle*

    Anyways.........

    Doom3 was set to come on Q4 2003... Valve came outta the closet with HL2 and set it for Q4 2003 to compete with Id.

    Doom3 was delayed.... why would any company with a hit game release it in September? Honestly.... without Doom3 to compete with they definitely want to push the game to a holiday season... FOR THE MONEY... and that's okay.. cause they are in the business of selling games for profit.

    Anyways...

    From all the articles I've seen... HL2 was pretty much complete... they've said time and time again that they were testing it and tweaking it to make sure everything was nicely balanced.. trying to make it the best game they possibly could.. now they have a few more months to tweak it even more.

    I doubt very much this incident had anything to do with the delay... although it might have... however I find it extremely odd that after 4 years of keeping it a secret.. some hacker manages to creep his way onto their network and steal the source. It's it convenient that a few days after Valve bellyflops and pissed off the entire Half-Life community (well, the ones stupid enough to believe Valve would actually make the release date) that they have this horrible incident and ask the whole community to rally behind them? (incidently the same people that were pissed off at them).

    I guess it's pretty convenient now.. they have 2-3 months to tweak the Source engine so all the code that got leaked means absolutely nothing.. they get to ship in the holiday season and get lots and lots of money... and .... EVERYONE LOVES VALVE AGAIN!

    WHEEE!!


    Anyways... take the truckloads full of money you make on HL2 sales at Christmas time and get yourselves a better network... and maybe keep your next engine on a computer that's not accessible from the net. NOOB!
     
  34. Athlon7

    Athlon7 Newbie

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    I sent this to Valve.

    T0y with http://www.*****.com/ seemed to be the first one to leak it onto the steam boards. I'm sure you're familiar with *****, so might want to start looking around at members and their ISP's etc. NOTE! ***** were the ones who posted the intercepted e-mail!!! How else would they intercept it? American Asshole was the one who posted, and he it seems, is a member of *****, how else would they have access? I'm suprised they did not close loopholes and go more covert. The VERY FIRST screenshots appeared on T0y's site which is now closed. I really, really deeply feel for you guys. Know this, the community adores you guys and will be dedicated to helping you. The people that hacked you are the tiny majority, keep your heads up, HL2 will be a huge success, but it looks like the cheating swine that seek to ruin our fun at multiplayer are indeed the ones that hacked you. They are knowledgeable, they are cunning, and they are incredibly immature. My hats off to you guys, I only hope you can close loopholes so that cheating doesn't happen.

    -joel-
     
  35. Hellweek

    Hellweek Guest

    Source code is every where

    Took Les then 5 min to get it
     
  36. antimatter

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    agreed.
     
  37. I've been thinking about how poorly some of the members of the community have been referring to/treating the employees at Valve. Upon reading Mr. Newells message here it was obvious that it had gone too far, so I guess this thread is probably the most fitting place for my message to Valve (emailed a short while earlier).

    To Mr. Gabe Newell and the entire Valve team.

    I understand that it has been a rough couple of weeks for the team in regards to the community's reactions to the delay, impersonation of Valve employees, and now, a serious threat to the security of your work.

    Please do not be disheartened by the actions of a few. I honestly believe that the community as a whole can, and will, fully support the Valve team through this difficult time. I am confident that your decisions are well-founded and hope that the recent events will not prevent you from enjoying the remaining development time and looking forward to the reactions of gamers worldwide.

    Despite the various negative rumors perpetuated by a minority, I believe I speak on behalf of 99.99% of the community when I say that we await the release of Half-Life 2 with patient (yet considerably eager, I might add) anticipation.
     
  38. Submerge

    Submerge Newbie

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    so many hoes *cough* i mean hackers.

    hate those biatches....bless you and your pimping ways playa.
     
  39. Athlon7

    Athlon7 Newbie

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    Is there anything we can do as a community to make life miserable for well, you know who? The my *** "clan"? I'd love to see some legal DDOS attacks on their site, and I'd gladly set my machine to legally pinging away all day and night ; ) I just have an intense hatred of them...
     
  40. icypyro

    icypyro Guest

    Some of you are missing the massive scope of this:

    The HL2 code, was basically completed. They were tweaking content, and maybe a little bit of code. This means that when HL2 comes out, you can just plop the content files in, compile the code, and viola, you have a fully working version of HL2 that you compiled yourself.

    Not only that, but making cheats and hacks is gonna be a hell of a lot easier now that the code is out. This is HUGE! I could turn around and make a game with the half-life 2 engine if i wanted, and be able to tweak it to my pleasure! This leak is like no other leaks before, it is the full source to a COMPLETE, cutting edge game!
     
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