Global warming will kill us all!

Discussion in 'Politics' started by TheHamster22, Mar 11, 2007.

  1. <RJMC>

    <RJMC> The Freeman

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    well I dont think thats going very well

    is just that it allways come that "people are doing,no they arent" so it dont look like stuff are going well

    so prepares your summer clothing cuz we will use it a lot!
     
  2. NeptuneUK

    NeptuneUK Space Core

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    I give in.

    *halves IQ*

    Yes, humans are the SOLE CONTRIBUTORS to global warming. Global warming WOULD NEVER OCCUR IF HUMANS DIDN'T BURN FOSSIL FUELS. I will ignore the fact that CO2 forms an insignificant proportion of the entire atmosphere of the earth and that CO2 has relatively minimal effect on global temperature when compared to all the other greenhouse gases. Humans are bad. Trees rule. I will also fail to realise that the climate has fluctuated and altered significantly long before humans existed.
    Everything I say is correct (even though I have no scientific evidence/qualifications to back me up), if you disagree then you are wrong because you are not expert (I am).
     
  3. Absinthe

    Absinthe The Freeman

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    Stop propping up straw men and being an idiot.

    Seriously. :rolleyes:
     
  4. Kyorisu

    Kyorisu Tank

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    Can I be one of the first in this thread to say.

    Global warming will not kill us, or your children, or you children's children...

    I'm no expert on the subject (and I doubt anyone here is) but I've always thought global warming was fud. Here we have many scientists stating some good facts against human CO2 emissions causing global warming. They are right it is propaganda anyone in Australia who watches free to air TV would have heard about the "Carbon Test" which was on recently. A show dedicated to forcing the idea that CO2 will be the death of us all which is bullshit. Considering companies are cleaner today then they have ever been since industrialization says something.

    The end part dealing with Africa is so true it isn't funny, we're so against polluting the atmosphere with this nasty gas that we won't let such a deprived third world nation try to move away from poverty.

    Human output levels of CO2 are not affecting the temperature to any noticeable degree what so ever. If you want to say otherwise go do the research yourself and find out. But if you ask me it's all bullshit.
     
  5. <RJMC>

    <RJMC> The Freeman

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    we will be th eone who will kill ourselfs,this whole thing will start wars and when the last 2 mens standing face them themselfs,a big blizzard will fall and they both will say "wah there was not global warming,**** that!" and they both will shoot in the head
     
  6. Dan

    Dan Tank

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    There are over 6 billion people, we are by far the most adaptable species on the planet. We live pretty much everywhere in every single climate. For something to wipe us out, it would also have to wipe out everything bigger than a raccoon. Equilibrium will include us. How can you not see that? Do you imagine that if it is 35 degrees in the summer everyone will suddenly die? Try moving to Arizona, people there use air conditioning. Sure, climate change can have lots of negative impacts, but there is nothing there that can wipe out humanity. If we go, it won't be because our environment is no longer hospitable, it would have to be something big like an asteroid.

    And who the **** is this "we" that we have a responsibility to. It's not like humans are some giant hive mind that acts as a single entity. It's survival of the fittest, you look out for yourself, and in turn that means looking out for the species no matter what form it takes. You can't badmouth this giant "humanity" that encompasses everyone because that person simply doesn't exist.

    The fact is that people just can't be frickin happy, they always have to complain about something.
     
  7. Ennui

    Ennui The Freeman

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    Who the hell here is saying that? I don't think anybody - and if someone is, they're probably not worth arguing with anyway. For someone that claims to be scientific and reasonable and intelligent about the issue, you sure are ignoring most of the thread.

    Kyo, some statements are worthless without some kind of credible merit behind them. Yours is one of them. Not to mention we are responsible for the entire future of the human race as we can affect it, not just the next handful of generations.

    I cannot believe that you honestly think that's true. A massive climate change on such a scale would wipe out almost all of our race's immense infrastructure, faster than we would be able to rebuild it to 'adapt'. We are adaptive on an evolutionary scale, but you surely must admit that today's humanity is VERY different from humanity over the past million years.

    Even if we could somehow manage to survive such an event... wouldn't you still rather avoid it? Hundreds of millions of people could die, it'd still be a very monumental global catastrophe. Paradigm shifts like that DON'T GO SMOOTHLY.
     
  8. Dan

    Dan Tank

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    We are adaptive on an evolutionary scale? Have you ever seen a bridge built, or a hydroelectric dam, or skyscraper, or a ****ing open pit mine excavator. Those things didn't evolve over millions of years. The whole point of intelligence is that we can react on a timescale magnitudes faster than evolution. If we adapt on an evolutionary scale then you might as well forget about doing anything about global warming because it will take millions of years to develop the stop global warming gene.
     
  9. Ennui

    Ennui The Freeman

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    You missed my point completely, and I'm not sure if it was intentional or if you're just not the brightest streetlight on the block. I was pointing out that you cannot possibly predict how our current culture and abilities could react to global warming. What are we going to do, build a hydroelectric bridge skyscraper that will cool the entire world? Or, once again, to drop a huge piece of ice in the ocean every year to cool the world down? We have guns and airplanes and computers but you'd have to be a complete ****ing moron to honestly believe that this planet isn't capable of annihilating us.

    If the icecaps melted, and the sea level went up, what can we do? Build a thousand miles of dams and levees? For what? The increasingly catastrophic weather - we can't do shit about that. The planet is a force to be reckoned with.
     
  10. Dan

    Dan Tank

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    Well you came up with dumbass solutions, but yeah, we can adapt to any situation with intelligent problem solving on a small scale. If the water level rises, we move to higher ground. If there are lots of storms, we build tougher buildings. If it is hot, we build better insulated buildings, or build more underground buildings.

    And even if you resort to insulting me.. given this is the internet, you are still wrong when you say that humans adapt on an evolutionary scale. Agriculture, cities, airplanes, none of that is evolutionary design.
     
  11. Ennui

    Ennui The Freeman

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    Everything is rooted in evolution. Where do you think we're going to have the money or resources to build underground buildings, better insulated buildings, more powerful ones, to relocate countless hundreds of millions of people? We can't even support all the humans on the planet NOW and you think we can deal with relocating all of them and completely changing the way we live?

    It would be cataclysmic. What do you suggest we do, Dan, if we are to ignore global warming now?
     
  12. Dan

    Dan Tank

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    Stop freaking out. Have a beer. Keep living. Deal with the actual problems we have. Everything works out. It's called laisez-faire, and it's the basis of America.
     
  13. Absinthe

    Absinthe The Freeman

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    Human adaptation does not ensure the survival of catastrophic events. If a large meteor hit the planet, it is almost a certainty that the human race as we know it today would go extinct unless we had already developed a sufficient countermeasure for such a scenario. The fact is that with all our intelligence and technological advancement, we are still subject to physical forces that have the potential to obliterate us into the annals of history.

    Admittedly, that is a worst-case scenario. But to sacrifice the lives of millions in the future is still irresponsible on an almost murderous level, even if it is not the doomsday event many perceive it to be.

    I'm struggling to understand how anybody can hold such a callous attitude. The power of human adaptation is worth **** all if it's not employed - like doing nothing currently and instead waiting for probable disaster to strike us, throwing yourself to whims of such a predicament instead of making a conscious effort to avoid it entirely or at least diminish its impact. To completely forego foresight, no matter how wonderful our adaptive skills are, is still retarded.
     
  14. Kyorisu

    Kyorisu Tank

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    WHAT GLOBAL WARMING? Even if you turned off every single factory you wouldn't do a thing. Unless you can magically develop a device to manage solar activity give it a rest.

    Oh noes it's a few degrees hotter.

    Years later.

    Oh noes it's a few degrees colder.

    Arguing about human adaption won't get you anywhere. Hell arguing about global warming won't get you anywhere unless you can convince governments and the media otherwise.
     
  15. Ennui

    Ennui The Freeman

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    I'm not freaking out, unless that's what you call being annoyed at other people's escapist resolve to avoid facing the facts. We can't deal with things as they come; sometimes you have to look ahead a little bit. Laissez-faire is not really an ideal life philosophy when it comes to some things, and this is that sort of thing. Also, I don't know what you're talking about with it being the basis of America, because you're referring to laissez-faire in the literal "let it be" definition, whereas it's only arguably related to American in the sense that our economic system is derived from Laissez-faire capitalism, though it is most certainly NOT laissez-faire as it stands today.
     
  16. MiccyNarc

    MiccyNarc Tank

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    I can't mention peak oil enough. Once oil is gone, our civilization bites the dust. And the scientists that say peak oil is not going to happen fall under the same category as those who claim global warming is a myth: crackpots, or are on the payroll of major energy corporations.

    Peak oil is a much bigger and immediate threat than global warming, and there is no solution currently. Hydrogen, ethanol, all of it are just oil derivatives.
    And it blows my mind that it's being almost completely ignored by the mainstream media.
     
  17. Absinthe

    Absinthe The Freeman

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    Global warming is a natural process, but it is currently heavily accentuated by human contribution.

    As I said earlier, at the very least we should strive to diminish the human factor. Blindly charging forward in complete disregard of global warming and the effect it will have on future generations is both ignorant and selfish.

    That said, I do believe there are more serious issues that we'll be facing sooner in the future. The issue of peak oil, as just previously brought up, is arguably the biggest one. But the beauty of us as a sentient and advanced species is that *gasp* we have the ability to multi-task and prioritize.
     
  18. Ennui

    Ennui The Freeman

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    If you honestly want to argue that there is no such thing as global warming, then argue it, and stop pretending that it's a fact that 1) there is not global warming and 2) that if there was humans aren't affecting it in one way or the other. Right now, you're taking things as axiomatical that are themselves the point of contention in the thread, and as such we're all going to just ignore you until you start supporting what you're saying.
     
  19. Dan

    Dan Tank

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    Peak Oil is the same as global warming. Sure the oil has got to run out, anyone can see that it is a limited resource. When it does we are forced to cut back our energy usage. That will mean that human development is forced to slow down, poverty probably goes up, people die, we will have to develop different sources of energy. In other words we adapt to it.

    It's the only thing we can do, and that is exactly what will happen. Because no matter how much you guys bitch and moan about global action, we are still 6 odd billion people and we are not going to suddenly all forget about ourselves are our needs and start looking out for some future that scientists predict but nobody can actually see with their eyes. The same is true for global warming. You can complain all that you want, but people are going to go on living their lives. Maybe you should worry more about yourself and less about humanity.
     
  20. Ennui

    Ennui The Freeman

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    Your attitude is pathetic. You can get on me for insulting you, but it's absolutely warranted here. I cannot understand - or at least have any tolerance for - someone who has so resigned themselves to their idea of human nature that they would not even make an effort to change things for the better because they believe it's doomed to fail.

    Have you seen Little Miss Sunshine? Notably, the line "Real losers are the people that don't even play because they're too afraid of losing."

    I invite you to continue your cycle of self-perpetration of your dismal outlook, but you cannot expect anyone else, and especially not me, to accept your justification of taking the easy path in life just because you don't care enough to do otherwise.
     
  21. Absinthe

    Absinthe The Freeman

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    Dan, you make all these vague references to human adaptation. That your shining knight will burst through the doors and save humanity. And yet your claims never amount to anything beyond the superficial.

    NEWSFLASH: Polar ice caps melt. Sea levels rise and displace/kill millions. Mankind resorts to using uber AC units running on energy supplied by fossil fuel energy that is also in the process of drying up. Human life is forever altered.

    Your reaction: We'll adapt. I don't really know how, what it will cost, how it will shape humanity from that point forward, how sustainable it will be, or really anything else. But... y'know... ADAPTATION FTW.

    Your philosophy seems to be letting disaster upon disaster heap upon us and just take it with stride, damn the consequences. And somehow this is actually preferrable to trying to avoid or alleviate such a prospect? This is like blowing all your cash in the present, disposing with your savings account, and just "making do" at the age of 80 without a retirement fund. Sure, you can survive it. But it still ****ing sucks.

    Only idiots invoke natural selection when faced with issues like this.
     
  22. Dan

    Dan Tank

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    Okay buddy, go ahead solve global warming then. I'll be the first to give you a pat on the back when you do. Take on peak oil too. And why not take on war, povery, hunger, famine, inequality, nuclear fuel, bad elevator music, and delinquent teenagers while you're at it.
     
  23. Ennui

    Ennui The Freeman

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    Points to Absinthe for managing to say what I've been trying to say but without being hampered by emotional outrage like I usually am ;)

    Dan, if your outlook on this is just that it's too big a problem to bother trying to alleviate, why the hell are you even posting in this thread?
     
  24. Absinthe

    Absinthe The Freeman

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    Comparison:

    Rape happens. We legislate against it, punish offenders, rehabilitate victims, and make a conscious and persistent effort to keep it from happening, and yet it still does.

    We clearly havet yet to come up with a perfection solution, so **** it. Let's not bother any more.
     
  25. Dan

    Dan Tank

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    I am posting because it is a rainy Sunday, and because you guys are all so full of righteous anger that it fills me with the opposite kind or righteous anger. You say that global warming or peak oil is a problem that we must fix. Yet you cannot give a clear path to how we will fix it other than broad outlines like everyone stop driving their car, or governments add taxes to C02. You expect action out of the entire planet for a problem that we can't even see yet. We cannot even accurately predict the weather next Tuesday, so it is not surprising that a lot of people do not see the doomsday that you do as a certainty.

    I say that you should look to happiness in your own life. Changes come and go in the world and to humanity. We all adapt to it on the small scale and we keep chugging along. There are always something looming over the horizon. But you are not responsible for humanity, governments aren't responsible for humanity. Humanity is just like nature, it just is.

    And you say I am callous and get even more angry that I don't care about the future of humanity. And I say so what, humanity can take care of itself, nature can take care of itself, I will take care of myself. Everything just works.
     
  26. Ennui

    Ennui The Freeman

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    The way that you manage to repeat yourself over and over without actually responding to anything is admirable, I'll give you that. There is nothing wrong with looking for happiness in your own life; everyone does that as a matter of course. We don't have a clear path to fix global warming, peak oil, or anything else- but a vague, fuzzy, mostly undefined path is better than just not having one at all.

    Hopefully, if enough people are convinced that it's a real problem, the right kind of people will start paying attention to it and trying to figure out what we can do about it, which is better than pointedly ignoring it as we are now.
     
  27. Absinthe

    Absinthe The Freeman

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    I'm not angry. I think your method of thinking is totally warped, existential, and stupid. I don't feel the need to euphemize.

    Yes, people should look towards happiness in their own lives. But that does not mean you should just forget about all problems. As a collective species that (I assume) wishes to live on beyond the next ten or twenty generations long after us individuals have passed away, I would think that most people would like to learn more about such impending world-changing issues like peak oil and global warming instead of throwing their towels in and saying "Not my problem".

    Human progress never came about by sitting on one's ass and heaving all responsibility onto the shoulders of your children. We may not have concrete solutions for these dilemmas, but accepting them as valid is always a start.
     
  28. Que-Ever

    Que-Ever Newbie

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    Just a few points, they talk about polar bears and how they're numbers are decreasing. They take counts way out on the edge of the continent, where there are no polar bears, and say, wow, they must be dying (in fact, polar bear population has gone up recently).

    They make this big deal out of graphs that show water levels- a slow steady incline, and then suddenly, whoosh, practically straight up and down. And of course, it was all made with phony data- according to Gore and his experts, florida would be ten feet under water by now.

    The movie says ten thousand scientists agree that there is global warming. Gore then twists that to mean, ten thousand scientists say global warming is harmful. Out of those ten thousand scientists, maybe ten percent were climatologists. What were the other 90 percent? Gynecologists?

    They take ice core samples from ice caps, and according to their own data, it was something like 10 degrees warmer in the 50's than it is today.

    Not to mention it was the coldest winter in history in the bay area.

    Please note- all my views and opinions are actually my art teacher's, and I may or may not actually know what I'm talking about.
     
  29. Ennui

    Ennui The Freeman

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    You're snipping at the fringes, not addressing the core points of the documentary. As an argumentative film it was obviously pushing an agenda, there's no secret there. I don't doubt there were a lot of distorted truths presented, but he constructed a very solid case nevertheless.
     
  30. Que-Ever

    Que-Ever Newbie

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    I'm pretty sure his point was that global warming is caused by people and is harmful, and that is clearly not the case.

    There's more to it, too, something about the movie and environmentalist propoganda is all just meant to get the hypocritical politicians and corporate eladers tons of money, and to have the world follow a specific energy-rationing agenda, and why it was so stupid because obviously other coutnries wouldn't fall for it (china, etc.) but I don't remember, and I don't want to try to explain it further than that. I should really get my art teacher on here to explain it.
     
  31. Laivasse

    Laivasse Companion Cube

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    For those who haven't seen the original documentary that spawned this thread:
    http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=9005566792811497638

    Note: by linking it I am not endorsing it.

    OFF TOPIC: For those in the UK who are interested in seeing a documentary that has a high chance of being really very good and interesting, check out Adam Curtis' 'The Trap', about freedom{?}, on BBC2 tonight at 9pm (in 40 minutes). It's the same guy that made 'The Power of Nightmares', which generated discussion on this forum and the internet for a long time.
     
  32. Ennui

    Ennui The Freeman

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    How is that clearly not the case? You can offer theories that the recent pointers to global warming are not due to global warming, but they are by no means definitive, and therefore by no means clear. I haven't seen anyone present a real argument that global warming isn't at least being accelerated by human contributions, which is what I think is happening.
     
  33. Sebastian

    Sebastian Newbie

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    For those of you who hadn't watched the documentary, it pretty much refutes everything that the Global Warming theory is based on. BTW Volcanoes emit far more carbon dioxide than humans ever will. WATCH THIS MOVIE BEFORE YOU POST YOUR ARGUMENTS.
     
  34. Beerdude26

    Beerdude26 Party Escort Bot

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    All in all, if temperature rises too much, we'll see some pretty sucky effects, no matter if it's us or if it isn't. So I say, try to keep the temperature down and we'll heat this planet up again when it suddenly starts to drop :p

    EDIT: Bit daft to think about it like that, isn't it? It would be absolutely mind-blowing to have a world-regulated temperature program to keep the temperature as static as possible.
     
  35. KagePrototype

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    dsfjabsgkfdksagdjkasGFDKLAFDASFKLASFHGJKLA

    http://gristmill.grist.org/story/2006/12/17/223957/72

    http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2007/03/swindled/#more-414

    dsgafsghadfhagfiklhdFKLSAFLLASFD

    [edit]:
    ///////////////////////
    sfjkagljkagjkhasklghahsgflafghlsahgk
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/6321351.stm
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/6321351.stm
    sglkahsgjklhasglakgafklghkla
    //////////////////////


    Are we to assume your art teacher is more informed then the Intergovermental Panel on Climate Change?

    This thread put me in a bad mood >.<
     
  36. NeptuneUK

    NeptuneUK Space Core

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    But IT'S NOT!!!! If the world warms up, there's **** all you can do about it. Banning cars and fire isn't going to do anything.
    The real problem is people making it into a problem, and hyping lots of shit up and scaremongering and blaming CO2 for raping your dog etc
    The real problem is people spending too much time telling us that CO2 evil and less time coming up with viable solutions to hypothetical scenarios.
    Even if we pretend that CO2 is the worst greenhouse gas and is soley responsible for the earth's temperature, there may not be enough fossil fuels left to **** anything up too much.
     
  37. Absinthe

    Absinthe The Freeman

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    Point me to a few reputable sources saying that cars are evil. Or are you just targeting a ****ing minority crackpot group on the lunatic fringe?

    The broad scientific consensus is that at the very least humans are contributing heavily to the global warming process. You have two options to take when considering this.

    A) You can acknowledge this and open up the issue to dialogue and science. It's possible a solution can arise, or we can at least buy ourselves time.

    B) You can take the Dan approach, which consists of poo-poo'ing the entire affair, making zero attempt at even remotely benefiting future generations, and sit around smacking your chest while murmuring "HURR HURR NATURE".

    Note: Picking the latter does not - as is often parroted - deal some grievous infraction to your current quality of life.
     
  38. theotherguy

    theotherguy Newbie

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    It puts me in a bad mood too. I thought that only hillbillys, neocons and oilmen didn't beleive in/didn't think that global warming was an issue. Reading major scientific journals and magazines there literally is no ambiguity on its existence or the implications of it occuring.


    [​IMG]
    Notice how only greenhouse gases are rising, not the level of ozone, solar energy or volcanic output.
     
  39. Dynasty

    Dynasty Space Core

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    You cant really say that. Theres no denying the world is destroying itself, thats inevitable, but us speeding it up doesnt help. For that reason alone, we have the resposibility to take action because we have the ability to take action.
     
  40. MiccyNarc

    MiccyNarc Tank

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    Lol, world destroying itself?

    This has happened so many times in the path that such a statement is ridiculous. Look at the fossil record and the number of times that millions of species went extinct.

    One day a future reptilian oceanographer will be performing a sonar scan and will discover the underwater remains of New York City, right before his race gets creamed by a meteor. Maybe the next intelligent life will be birds? Who knows, who cares. This is all inevitable. Mankind can't live forever.
     

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