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Discussion in 'News' started by Chris D, Jul 18, 2005.
No we wont....gabe said we wouldn't smarty.
/me believes in the power of "-novideo".
Actually, I got retail HL2, and I don't remember the Sierra / Vivendi movies ever playing. That's Steam for you, makes you forget that there ever was a publisher involved.
Okay, thank god for that.
Me to. Me to.
Me too. Me too.
m3 2!!!1 m3 2!!!1
You know this is all your fault, you didn't buy enough copies on steam and now look what happened, Valve partnered with the largest publisher in the world.
Honestly guys I feel like breaking out the worlds smallest violin, I will readily admit there is some crap that EA publishes (sadly crap that gets good ratings for some reason). While some companies have ended up on the short end of the stick with EA, Critereon, Maxis, and DICE, all seem to be doing well. Other companies that have worked with EA and moved on include Square, Free Radical, Firaxis and Lionhead. Clearly EA chews up and spits out developers and saps all creativity from them.
If you want to be upset by all means go ahead, it entertains me, that's for sure, but I'd suggest being a little more level headed about this whole affair.
The Horror, The Horror.
While I accept your point, I kind of think that your examples are actually pretty self defeating.
Square-Enix pratically define "rehash". No developer makes 11 sequels to a game and stays creative (and if you count all the "un-numbered" FFs, you're talking about 20-odd sequels). The last few Final Fantasies have pushed no boundaries whatsoever, and anything outside of that series is instantly forgetable and forgotten. That said, their Western publisher has very little bearing on the quality of their games, but Square is NOT a good example of a creative company. They're a paint by numbers company, possibly even the best example of rampant rehashing in the world.
The same can easily be said of Firaxis. They've never stopped churning out pratically identikit Civilization games and various spin-offs. Their last game was basically a straight remake of one they made years before. What's so creative about them now?
Lionhead too is what I'd call a bad example. Yes, they're creative to a commendable degree, but nowhere else is there a better example of squashed creativity. Is Fable what Fable was hyped up to be from the start? Is Black & White anything but a deeply flawed, dull to the extreme collection of undeveloped ideas? It's valid to say that a certain ammount of control over creativity must be exercised - Fable is more deplorable as an exercise in extreme hype than of developers being squished by publishers - but Black & White is still a good example of game that felt distinctly unfinished. How Lionhead/EA pushed it out of the door without realising that it wasn't living up to the words they were saying about it is beyond me.
Now Free Radical Design aren't a bad example, but they're still only about 3 Timesplitters games (which are hardly epoch making) and a game called Second Sight which was clearly so wonderful that it passed everyone by (i've no idea what it's about ).
Still, like you i'm sure that Valve can "survive" EA creativity intact. Steam has already put them in that position, and when you think about it, Vivendi are a massive hulking corporate monster, and look how Valve survived that...
my sentiments exactly...
Tobal, Final Fantasy tatics, Final Fantasy 11, Kingdom Hearts.
Pirates, Sim Golf, Gettysburg
Fair enough, though technically the only project from Lionhead is The Movies, and the Black and White games. If we just talk Molynuex, then fable can be included. Other Molynuex games include Dungeon Keeper, and Populous, while he may overpromise he is fairly creative in his edeavors.
I do admit I don't know what their next game is going to be like, but financially they survived partnering with EA.
Now realistically if you are going to take the viewpoint that sequels aren't creative, then valve isn't exactly a creative company, as all they have developed are Expansion Packs and a Sequel, all FPS, all using the same setting.
I still say it's everyones fault for not buying 12 copies off of steam
Tobal = Hehe... I blame Square Europe for me not actually knowing the first thing about this game. By that alone, it may actually be innovative (Square Europe as someone put it earlier today on Eurogamer.net "Yeah, its a single roomed office in soho with a guy emailing "No plans for European release." every time a new game is released in Japan"). Still, the game is IMO an isolated event that I can't even vouch for the quality of.
FFT = Tactics Ogre rehash. Also ancient and kind of besides the point, though admitadly great it wasn't innovative in the least.
FF11 = One tiny step either forwards of backwards from Everquest. Nothing new, just the same old tired MMORPG concepts dressed in Final Fantasy colours.
KH = Exactly the same as every other Action RPG but with...? Disney Characters?
Basically, my issue is with everything Square-Enix have done since FF10. Rehash Rehash Rehash.
Sadly a case of "back in the day". How are they at all innovative in the here and now where they're churning out Civ after Civ and simply remaking the original titles of yesteryear?
Very true point, but I don't really take that stance... HL2 is IMO one of the most innovative games in recent years... it's just that, many of the companies mentioned were catching what seems like a severe sequel bug from which little innovation came forth, whereas Valve is putting out sequels which push boundaries. But then - as I've found discussing HL2 itself - perceptions of what are innovative are often false or simply a matter of opinion... so I must apologise for pointing out what to me aren't innovative games that to you possibly are quite innovative Bah, anyway, getting away from the point of the thread here.... which is 14 pages long :O
I don't think HL2 in itself is innovative, but the Source engine it uses is.
The use of physics with the gravity gun is pretty innovative imo.
You can't really seperate the engine from the game itself.
Source was built with ONE game in mind: HL2. It was built to accomplish very specific things, and it accomplished them spectacularly IMO.
I think there is entirely too much focus on innovation as being the only form of creativity, it's a very jaded view. HL2 for me had little no innovation as far as gameplay, essentially it felt like I was playing Half Life with a physics gun, the creativity did not really come from gameplay, it came from the art, the presentation of the story, the digital actors, and the occasional moments where new gameplay was presented. It wasn't that HL2 really took me anywhere I'd never been, it was that HL2 made me really believe I was there(well except every three minutes when I was stuck at a loading screen).
In any case I think my point is that there are creative developers currently working at/with EA, and there are developers who have previously worked with EA and moved on. There is no reason to think Valve will end up a Westwood, or an Oddworld Inhabitants.
Ah yes, westwood... RIP - May you one day return to your throne.
Looks like we are about to CHALLENGE EVERYTHING!
monopolies are bad, thats why one of the main duties of the us governmetn is to break them up, monopolies are the only negative aspect to a capatilistic free market.
the sad thing, is that while games sell mroe then movies, and its a huge business, the only thing the government ever thinks about is censoring their content, they never think about protecting the consumer from monopolies.
valve is a super huge hypocrit. they say that they developed steam to set the trend to help out the small developers, all for the small guy, like valve, whatever, then they team up with the big guy.
well, in order to be a good fanboi, alls i gots to say is .......GO VALVE
Talk about missing the point. Steam is a way for smaller developers to publish their games without having to go through the "big guy". Valve used it to great effect for HL2. The fact that they still use a traditional publisher for retail is irrelevant - after ditching VU, they had a queue of publishers knocking at their door to publish their retail boxes. What kind of fool turns that down?
the only way its a way to go around "the big guy" is if everyone makes their own steam, which would suck ass for gamers. if everyone used steam, it would make them, the big guy
wish people would get that through their heads, gabe, = microsoft business tactics. hl was a cool game, woopie, doesn't make them noble, or jesus, or somehow a great honerable gaming power looking out for consumer and developer rights. everything you've ever seen them do is for their own pockets. and that is the american way. nothing wrong with it
Er, right. OK. I don't think anyone was positing anything other than that.
I will never buy another game from EA, yes, even Half Life 3.
Looks like another great series will be ruined by the publishing giant.
Have you actually read any of the previous posts?
You will be able to buy Valve's products, completely free of EA, via Steam.
EA won't have any say in the development of Valve's games.
EA won't have any say in how Valve is run.
EA just have a contract to distribute and market Valve's retail products.