Separate names with a comma.
Discussion in 'Game Modifications' started by OD-Black_Fire, Jun 26, 2006.
I guess you cannot read, no they cannot.
Actually jon had nothing to do with that, it was a personal issue between apathy and myself, I don't like how he made himself out to be some miracle worker on relationships.
Everyone ignore this post. I'm making a point to a certain obstinate individual.
Jonneh, this is me, Ennui, proving to you that I am who I say I am. I have engaged in back and forth PMs with you for the past day on the Firearms 2 forums, concerning this whole ordeal. Are you satisfied?
what the hell, I never seen you post here? did you ask for 666 posts?
I knew it
Nah, just a funny coincidence.
ZERG (the guy on the FA2 teams side) DOES NOT OWN THE IP!!!!
NOBODY owns the IP atm. Or if anybody DOES, it's way too up in the air to point fingers, in regards to the intelectual property. With VALVe being the most official claim right now, and they've decided to stay the **** away.
Zerg, as I remember reading (don't remember where), only owns the name "FireArms". Sort of as a trademark.
He sent cease-and-decist letters, then learned that with what he owned, he had no power to actually cut them off, so he wen't with personal gain, cut his losses, and joined the FA2 team.
But if I read correctly, he hasn't actually done anything. He is the official team leader, so he could shut them off if he wanted to, but he's too busy living his life at DICE.
if FA2 does a "good job" i guess Valve wouldnt care -> doesnt cost them a thing to build the mod + HL2 is more popular.
You'll probably only hear from Valve is the FA2 team starts to screw things up :S
He only said he wanted them to keep going, guess he's still living in the glory days of FA1. He isn't the acting leader, jonjon is.
Yeah, but the deal was that he could be the OFFICIAL leader.
He just hasn't done anything at all, so JonJon is acting as leader.
What a freaking loon... he works on the battlefield franchise aswell? wtf, where do EA find these people.
I hope it all blows up in their face,, and now its getting some attention.. it should.
and who cares about the intellectual property, its the moral principal that matters here.
We may never know exactly what happended do to all the bais, but the way Jonneh defends himself, he certainly sounds guilty. He's got the backed in a corner stretch the truth play the victim thing going. Why not just make a "spiritual successor?" It's not like people would care if it was alot like that Firearms mod for Half-Life if it was fun. And going out of you're way to take over the site? Thats just absurd.
hehh... the admins of fa2 banned me from the forum..that's really good way to treat their members..i ws just telling the truth and then banned me.. LOL
Personally, i think that the forum incident was bad, but what really aggravates me is the fact that its all over a name. I read the post on the firearms site and i just on saying to myself "why didn't they just let them make a sequel?" What harm could it have done to let fans continue making a mod that they enjoy? It almost sounds like the firearms team doesn't want a sequel made because they are afraid it will tear away fans from their new mod. To me, this sounds pretty selfish. True, these fans are pretty exteme, but all they want is for their favorite mod to not die away.
edit:messed up a little when i typed before
Some things are best left as good memories. Anyone remember Seinfeld? If you watched it, and you liked it, you know it ended while people still enjoyed it.
The last thing you want to do is keep working on something and changing it until you destroy it, FA was headed down that road.
FA could never, and will never, be as popular as it was in 2.5
They did immoral, and in some ways, illegal things.
Their purpose is no excuse for their actions.
If you're told to stop, you stop. It's immature to continue when you're told to stop, esspecially when you need to justify your own actions.
You don't know that the fa2 team won't do a good job. Hell, whos knows how popular it might become. You can't judge their work from some of their less admirable actions. I don't approve of their forum stunt, but i think that they have been treated a little unfairly by the original devs. True, some of their actions were plain malicious, but in retrospect, all would have been avoided if the original devs had just given them the name. Its ridiculous, if you ask me.
I gotta disagree with you there, thats like telling a rape victim that you shouldn't have resisted and just let him do whatever he wanted.
And why should the FA team be forced to let them use the name? Did it cross your mind that perhaps they didn't believe they were the right people for the job? A lot of people think/thought FA2 is/was 'official' and if it fails, miserably, it will reflect badly on what the real team accomplished in the past.
Its true that this forum thing was really immature and uncalled for. But if it wouldn't have happened, would you really be taking the side you're taking? The FA2 team has stated many times that they are not the same team as the original, so anyone who thinks that this would reflect bad on the old devs is exaggerating a bit. Besides, in the end its just a mod. Honostly, i think the old team should have been a little more cooperative.
Imagine if, when cs was still a user-made mod, that its creators decided not to make a port onto source. Think of how many fans there would be that would want to have that same experience on this new engine. Now imagine a team of fans asking the cs team politely if they could make a fan sequel. Now, imagine the team members refusing to give up their mod's name just out of pride. Now imagine this being an ongoing battle for months. Now the new team does something highly irrational and immature. Now the old team has something to hold against them to further support their arguments. The old team loves talking about this incident because it makes the new team look like jackasses. The truth is that this new cs game will not die, and the old team knows this. They just want to make it as difficult as they can. Its all for pride and its ridiculous.
edit: Also, why didn't they make a big deal about this when it happened instead of waiting a whole year to cry about it?
It's a mod team's absolute right to stop working on their mod. No-one else has any right whatsoever to carry it on on their behalf.
The fans, the end-users are owed nothing by the mod teams. When they decided to stop working on it, then they just have to get over it. Especially if the team have already been approached for permission and denied it.
It's not a case of pride.
But it did happen. That's the whole issue.
Look, theres no good reason for them to not let the fans develop a sequel. Don't say that its because it will reflect badly on the old devs, because the new team has openly stated many times that it is a new, fan-based team and has no relation with the old team. From where i see it, they don't someone developing a sequel because they're afraid of losing fans for their new mod. This reason sounds pretty selfish, if you ask me. Also, from what i hear, the devs that are complaining didn't create the majority of the mod, they just added on maps and such. You've heard about zerk's little actions with the mod and how he changed his position in the middle. Well, if you read his letter on the fa2 forums, you'll see that the reason he changed his mind was because he realized he was working towards the death of a mod he created and loved. To not allow fans to continue making something they love is pretty selfish. If you can think of any truly good reason why they shouldn't be allowed to continue making the mod, please tell me.
Sure, you might think they have the right to end the mod forever, but if they don't have a good reason, then its the fans that get screwed over. Its like a slap in the face if the fans, some of whom have been with the mod longer than these devs, are denied the possibility of a sequel.
It's not up to the fans to decide. It's up to the devs.
It really doesn't matter whether or not the dev team says its not connected. When you take the title, you take it's legacy as well. People are going to notice the FireArms 2 title alot more than they will a couple of words on how they aren't the original devs. And saying that the devs are being selfish for not creating a sequel? Absolute bullshit. The devs created FireArms because they loved games, loved to make games, and wanted to share that with other people. You played FireArms thanks to their kindness. You ought to thank them for sharing their work, for free no less. Stealing their legacy is the selfish thing.
I could care less that they stole the firearms name. Acting like it is official is a little much, but the firearms team could have cleared that up. Deleting all the stuff off the ftp and highjacking their website is pretty crap though. Definately will do my best to bring this up whenever the mod is mentioned.
They didn't need the FireArms name to make a good mod. I'm sure if they made a mod along the lines of FireArms with all the improvements they wanted to see made (and it was good), the original members would have donated them the name and maybe allowed the rights to the maps and concepts because they'd be able to see it was in safe hands. Having your website taken from under your feet is not an indication of a worthy person to pass the baton onto.
Quoted for absolute, one hundred percent Ennui-endorsed truth.
I don't know about anyone else, but if, in the future, the Zombie Master team and I decided to discontinue the game because we felt it couldn't be taken further, I'd be MIGHTY PISSED if someone decided to create a game called Zombie Master, touting themselves to be the official reproduction of the game, and sweeping out website from under our feet. In fact, it'd be to the point where I'd track down the guy who did it and pay them a special visit.
Also, note that the majority of people who support what FA2 did aren' parts of mod-teams (or, at least, mod teams on the track to getting more than concept art produced). God-damn general public. We owe you nothing. NOOOTHIIIING!
So is eric (one of the original FA devs) still on the FA2 team or is he completely gone?
Screwed up situation...
I doubt they will do as good as a job. Hopefully it will just sorta fade away.
Please post this in the news... what's the worst that could happen?
what are you an idiot?
Shh. Don't tell anyone.
The FA2 team is just a sea of ****flaps.
http://www.firearmssource.com/ just cropped up on one of the other HL2 news resources. World of War is linked from that site, so I'm guessing this means the website owners aren't just gonna roll over and take it.
I know which one of those I'll play!
FA:S, in addition to being SPONSORED by the Firearms team, not shunned by them like FA2, has MUCH better looking media, despite being about a week old whereas FA2 is a year old.
Firearms: Source is different entity from the WaW team, they have been given permission form the FA devs to create Firearms: Source.
One of the devs from FA posted this on their forums: Amiable approval
*edit* damn you Ennui *runs off and cries*