Favorite politcal movie?

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Foxtrot, Jun 22, 2005.

  1. Foxtrot

    Foxtrot Newbie

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    What is your favorite political movie? Mine is Black Hawk Dawn because it shows the results when Clinton screws people over, of all the people he took advantage of and abused or womenized I think his abuse of the military is the worst. Taking advantage of volunteers, out of hate, is about as low as it gets.
     
  2. Ennui

    Ennui The Freeman

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    Black Hawk Down.

    It's on FX right now actually.

    Define political movie though...
     
  3. Foxtrot

    Foxtrot Newbie

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    Just anything that reflects your political beliefs, and you find entertaining.
     
  4. Dag

    Dag Newbie

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    Lord of the Rings!
     
  5. oldagerocker

    oldagerocker Newbie

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    Schindlers List.
     
  6. CptStern

    CptStern suckmonkey

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    that's not a political movie ..it's info-tainment.

    my fave political documentaries:

    Manufacturing Consent
    Power of Nightmares
    The Corporation
    The Atomic Cafe
    Incident at Oglala
    <removed for short attention spans>
     
  7. Glirk Dient

    Glirk Dient Newbie

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    We could blow off all your movies and say the same thing, so don't just blow off realistic war movies because they don't show your viewpoints in a favorable light. He wasn't asking for an opinion on the movies he chose, as I could offer some to yours, but I don't need to troll the political forums any more than I already do.

    Black Hawk down was an awsome movie, it showed the elite special forces in true glory, and it also showed how tough it can be for the guys out there defending freedom.
     
  8. CptStern

    CptStern suckmonkey

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    the films I picked were documentaries, they're not scripted, dont feature actors or special effects, and most important of all present facts rather than a fictionalised story based on real events


    have you seem any of the movies on my list?
     
  9. Glirk Dient

    Glirk Dient Newbie

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    When I saw you had fahrenheit 9/11 listed I realized the list was most likely filled with liberal documentaries that simply make the illusion of truth. Honestly, you should know moore tends to say what he wants, not the truth because he can.

    Do a google search if you really want to find the innacuracies of that documentary, as for the others I have not seen them nor ever heard of them.
     
  10. Foxtrot

    Foxtrot Newbie

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    Heh, a Michael Moore movie and facts, that is pretty funny. Oh and no need to be an asshole Stern, it isn't "info-tainment" and that is not what they tried to do with the movie.
     
  11. CptStern

    CptStern suckmonkey

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    but it's a fictionalised account ...info-tainment is entertaining information ...I dont see what's wrong with that


    oh and if moore's facts were all lies he'd be knee deep in litigation by now
     
  12. CptStern

    CptStern suckmonkey

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    I really had misgivings of including F-9/11 on my list because of exactly your kind of response


    this is just embarrassing IMHO:

    "When I saw you had fahrenheit 9/11 listed I realized the list was most likely filled with liberal documentaries that simply make the illusion of truth. "


    so in other words if one out of the 5 movies is suspect, they all are ...Atomic age is a documentary of 1950's nuke tests set to classical music ...I guess they're pushing a "liberal agenda" too ...btw wtf is a "liberal agenda"? you people seem to throw that label around to pretty much everything not conservative
     
  13. Foxtrot

    Foxtrot Newbie

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    They weren't all lies but the way he skewes everything with his personal bias is ridiculous, it makes Black Hawk Down look unbiased.
     
  14. CptStern

    CptStern suckmonkey

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    :upstare: blackhawk down has actors reading lines written by scriptwriters


    Moore made an entertaining documentary based on facts
     
  15. Foxtrot

    Foxtrot Newbie

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    His "documentary" has people saying only what Moore wants them to.
     
  16. Lemonking

    Lemonking Newbie

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    stern you disapoint me Moore even admitts that over exaggerates in his films and to think that stuff he does is not staged...well I think thats dumb but I know that some stuff is true he says still kinda dumb
     
  17. CptStern

    CptStern suckmonkey

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    ? the facts speak for themselves ..moore practices gonzo journalism: but he also makes it entertaining by inserting his own personal views ...but this time around he left the facts speak for themselves (cue seinfeldrules 59 deceits link) Watch moore's Aweful truth or some of his other documentaries.



    ok enough about moore, I also listed:


    Manufacturing Consent
    Power of Nightmares
    The Corporation
    The Atomic Cafe
    Incident at Oglala
     
  18. Gray Fox

    Gray Fox Newbie

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    Have you by any chance also read the orignal book, Black Hawk Down, causet here are some minor discrepencies between the book and the movie.

    What then really happened in Mogadishu and what is Scott’s film hiding?

    To begin at the beginning, why were the American forces in Somalia? According to Scott’s film they were there as part of the UN mission and their role was to get food aid through to the starving. This was not the case. The famine was already over by the time US troops arrived. Bowden’s book Black Hawk Down and the book Me Against My Brother, by another American journalist, Scott Peterson,** both make this clear. Neither of them is anti-American or left-wing in their political sympathies.

    Peterson points out that the number of famine deaths had peaked in October to November 1991. President George Bush did not launch Operation Restore Hope until December 1992. In any case the 30,000 combat troops, attack helicopters and warships that Bush despatched were scarcely suitable for an aid mission.

    A scene at the beginning of the film suggests that the UN prevented US troops from protecting aid convoys. Again this is untrue. The mission was handed over to UN control in May 1993, but effectively the US remained in the driving seat. Although 23 nations participated in the UN operation, political and military control was in American hands throughout. US Admiral Jonathan Howe was in charge of the whole operation. His staff and all the most senior military officials were American.

    The US troops sent to Mogadishu were not intended to help the aid effort. Among the Rangers were members of the secret Delta force, a fact that in deference to the military Scott never spells out. The presence of General Garrison in Mogadishu was kept secret because his military background in special operations would have made it all too clear that the purposes of the task force was not humanitarian. Garrison had commanded the Phoenix Program, whose task was to kill Vietnamese village leaders who were thought to be sympathetic to the Viet Cong. Since then he had conducted covert operations all over the world.

    In the weeks leading up to October 3, the Rangers had earned themselves the enmity of the civilian population of Mogadishu. Three times a day Black Hawks would harass the city’s residents flying along the streets below roof level before soaring back up to hundreds of feet in the air. This activity was popular with the Rangers who told Bowden it was like riding a roller coaster. Sometimes they would hover low over flimsy shacks blowing them apart, or over a crowded market place tearing people’s clothes from their bodies or even ripping babies out of their mothers’ arms, in a practice the pilots called “rotor washing.”

    Even before October 3 the US military were casually brutal about the number of dead and injured among the Somalis, whom they referred to contemptuously as “Sammys” or “Skinnies.” They regularly lobbed mortar shells into the city from the UN compound. They hit hospitals and homes killing an unknown number of civilians. No attempt was even made to count the number of casualties when troops opened fire on crowds.

    The single action that did more than any other to cement Somali hostility and to unite the different clan factions in Mogadishu against the Americans was the massacre of a meeting of Habr Gedir clan elders on July 12, 1993. They had convened their meeting to discuss peace proposals Admiral Howe had put to them the previous day. Cobra gunships armed with TOW missiles and 20 mm cannons attacked the house, with ground troops finishing off the wounded.

    When the mission on October 3 went wrong the US troops found themselves in a situation that was largely of their own making. Bowden is very candid about the extent of civilian casualties on October 3. He describes how the American troops opened fire on civilians as they put it “mowing down whole crowds of Sammies,” laughing when they blew a woman apart. He also admits that they took women and children hostage. Scott’s film does not show the hostages and pays no attention to civilian casualties.

    Nor does Scott admit, as Bowden does, that the Rangers went to pieces under fire and that their discipline broke down. The average age of the Rangers was 19, with many almost fresh off the high school football pitch having never been under fire before. Bowden notes that one of soldiers joined the army because his wife was pregnant and he needed a better-paid job with a health plan. Scott never demonstrates this amount of interest in his characters. He is concerned only to manufacture a glorious event out of a military debacle. He does not want his audience to dwell on the tragedy of these wasted lives. He certainly does not want us to ask who was responsible for getting these young men killed and maimed.

    Why did these young men die? To answer that Scott would have had to examine the background to the US intervention in Somalia. This is the most glaring omission in the film. There is no hint of America’s long-term involvement in the area and its role in creating the tragic situation in Somalia through its support for the vicious dictator Siad Barre.

    The US had supported Siad Barre since the mid-1970s. Until then Somalia had been a Soviet ally. When neighbouring Ethiopia overthrew Emperor Hailie Selassie, the Soviet Union shifted its support to the new Ethiopian regime. The US government took the opportunity to form an alliance with Somalia, pouring millions of pounds worth of sophisticated weaponry into this backward country, because it offered a base on the strategically important sea lanes leading into the Middle East.

    Siad Barre exacerbated clan rivalries and was responsible for causing famine by devastating the farming districts. During the late 1970s and 1980s Somalia became the largest recipient of aid in Africa, but most of this money went on military spending. By the late 1980s Somalia was awash with arms.

    When rebellion broke out in the late 1980s, the US backed Siad Barre as he ruthlessly suppressed opposition. In 1988 he razed the city of Hargiesa to the ground in an attempt to destroy the rival Isaaq clan. In these years every young Somali learned to use an assault rifle.

    In 1991 Siad Barre was overthrown. A unit of US Marines had to be diverted from the Gulf to evacuate the US embassy, which was by then the largest in sub-Saharan Africa. The American landing a year later was an attempt to recover this strategic base on the Horn of Africa and to consolidate the Middle Eastern gains that the US had made in the Gulf War.

    This bloody intervention proved unsuccessful at the time, but the present US administration has shown that it is eager to complete Bush senior’s unfinished business in the Middle East. Somalia is on the list of targets in the “war against terror”. While it may be lower down the list than Iraq, a repeat visit can be expected.

    For all its superficiality, Scott’s film takes on a sombre meaning in this context. Film is the most deceptive of media, because it conveys the illusion of reality so strongly. It shows us what we think we can see or, ideally, what a good director thinks and sees in his mind’s eye. If he does his job well that is how we think we see the world thereafter. Scott has been employed like a political hack to make a world audience think differently and lay the ghosts, Somali and American, of October 3, 1993.

    * Mark Bowden, Black Hawk Down, Bantam Press, 1999

    ** Scott Peterson, Me Against My Brother, Routledge, 2001

    See Also:
    Hollywood enlists in Bush’s war drive
    [19 November 2001][/quote]

    http://www.wsws.org/articles/2002/feb2002/hawk-f19.shtml

    Anyway my favorite political movie is The corporation, I mean when even smart republicans call it good, then you know it's good.
     
  19. Dag

    Dag Newbie

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    Or you can read the book. :rolleyes:
    I didn't like Moore's presentation of 9/11. It wasn't so much a political movie as a bush hate-fest. And most of the stuff he said was wrong. Moore claims the first plane hit when Bush was on his way to the school. No, Bush was at the school, its on video. And when Moore complains about Bush going to a secret shelter after the attacks, and says thats horrible, is it? He's the freakin president.
     
  20. CptStern

    CptStern suckmonkey

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    hmmm nibbling little inconsitencies you notice but the overall message you ignore?
     
  21. Dag

    Dag Newbie

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    I left the movie after Moore said, "And a few days after the terrorist attacks, instead of being a good president, Bush went to sleep." And about the whole theater gasped before I decided to leave. I mean, on his sight, he has a section about how horrible the A-bomb was, and what the goverment was censoring from the world. (Which in fact, turned out to be the fact that they dropped it, which was widely known.) He doesn't stop to let the reader know, but if we hadn't of used it, the only alternate alternative was invasion, and the casualties would have been massive on both sides. And they keep making referances of Bush going to Vietnam, but when I click the link, I figure out its only a play on words, and that he actually meant, Korea.
     
  22. Icarusintel

    Icarusintel Newbie

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    My favorite was "Dick Durban's Apology in front of Congress" because it was hilarious and over-acted, and the script was preposterous, sadly it came out too late and lost most of the meaning it would've had if it had come out earlier......


    oh, that's right, it wasn;t a movie, too bad it's real :|
     
  23. RakuraiTenjin

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    Haha he had tears. :LOL:
     
  24. CptStern

    CptStern suckmonkey

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    you shouldnt even be discussing F-9/11, you didnt watch it. Moore is tame compared to the actual facts behind the war ...nothing in the movie was new to me ...again you're avoiding moore's whole point behind the movie: that americans got swindled ...which is abundantly clear now that bush's house of lies caved in on itself
     
  25. Icarusintel

    Icarusintel Newbie

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    he did? i must have missed that since I only watched enough of it to get the gist of what he was saying and then turned off the tv in disgust
     
  26. Dag

    Dag Newbie

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    Is Moore all that truthful?
    http://slate.msn.com/id/2102723/
     
  27. Pesmerga

    Pesmerga Newbie

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    Actually, most definitly the best political movie to date. There was a documentary on it...and it's like, a goal can be acheived without throwing armies at it.
     
  28. Glirk Dient

    Glirk Dient Newbie

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    Yeah...lot's of movies can seemingly pull that out of their ass. However...in LOTR without the huge armies fighting frodo wouldn't have been able to accomplish his mission so actually your statement is wrong.
     
  29. CptStern

    CptStern suckmonkey

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    sorry dismissed as a crackpot who like you avoids the bigger picture in favour of nitpicking his argument apart ...not good enough ..and pretty much every last one of his idiotic arguments can be dismissed with this

    http://anton-sirius.dailykos.com/story/2004/7/20/18926/6104



    how am I supposed to take this guy seriously?:

    "However, I think we can agree that the film is so flat-out phony that "fact-checking" is beside the point. And as for the scary lawyers—get a life, or maybe see me in court. But I offer this, to Moore and to his rapid response rabble. Any time, Michael my boy. Let's redo Telluride. Any show. Any place. Any platform. Let's see what you're made of.

    If Michael Moore had had his way, Slobodan Milosevic would still be the big man in a starved and tyrannical Serbia. Bosnia and Kosovo would have been cleansed and annexed. If Michael Moore had been listened to, Afghanistan would still be under Taliban rule, and Kuwait would have remained part of Iraq. And Iraq itself would still be the personal property of a psychopathic crime family, bargaining covertly with the slave state of North Korea for WMD. You might hope that a retrospective awareness of this kind would induce a little modesty. To the contrary, it is employed to pump air into one of the great sagging blimps of our sorry, mediocre, celeb-rotten culture. Rock the vote, indeed. "


    hate-rhetoric and speculative fear-mongering



    the guy's a blowhard loudmouth apologist I could take him on, and I have no doubt I'd win ...because the evidence is stacked against him




    now for the last freakin time can we drop Moore already? one sentence lead to 2 pages of moore shit ...I dont care because he's not the only source of information


    now if you'd like to discuss any of the other movies I listed I'm all ears but I'm tired of pointless moore bashing when there's far more compelling evidence out there
     
  30. Foxtrot

    Foxtrot Newbie

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    http://www.wsws.org/articles/2002/feb2002/hawk-f19.shtml

    Anyway my favorite political movie is The corporation, I mean when even smart republicans call it good, then you know it's good.[/QUOTE]

    I stopped reading where they said the Americans purposfully bombed hospitals and killed babies, that is just plain BS. They are people just like you, not some tool for liberal media to show how bad the government is when they want it to look bad.
     
  31. Gray Fox

    Gray Fox Newbie

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    The republican way, if the truth doesn't fit your world view, just ignore it.
    Well anyway, if you don't like this, just go read the original book that inspired your favoriete political movie.
     
  32. Foxtrot

    Foxtrot Newbie

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    Hah, nice generalization dumbass. The liberal way, if it doesn't fit your world view, make shit up. There is aboslutley 0 proof that anything like that happened.
     
  33. Icarusintel

    Icarusintel Newbie

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    yeah, cause the democrats are so much different
    everyone ignores things that don;t go along with the way they think, maybe not all the time, but at least some of the time, it's one of the ways we keep ourselves happy
     
  34. Solaris

    Solaris Party Escort Bot

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    Get this into your head the democrats are not liberal, there s**t.

    However they are the most liberal option. The whole 2 party systems crap imo.

    Anyway I would say:
    Bowling for Collumbine
    911:the Road to tyranny

    Battleship Potemkin- A film about the russian revolution made 80 years ago. Fantastic.
     
  35. Steve

    Steve Tank

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    Primary Colors, of course.
     
  36. Razor

    Razor Spy

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    I dislike political movies for being biased towards one political spectrum, especially Michael Moore's movies.

    But Power Of Nightmares was very, very good.
     
  37. Polaris

    Polaris Spy

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    What? Moore is biggest liar ever ! :hmph:
     
  38. CptStern

    CptStern suckmonkey

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    bigger than George "I lied to 300,000,000 americans" Bush?
     
  39. CptStern

    CptStern suckmonkey

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    oh vey! I wish I had never listed f-9/11 ..at least you watched PoN :)
     
  40. Foxtrot

    Foxtrot Newbie

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    Well his movie was worldwide, and was intended to sway peoples opinions on the US overseas too.
     

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