**** fashion

Discussion in 'The Lounge' started by Raziaar, Jan 20, 2013.

  1. Krynn72

    Krynn72 The Freeman

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    Got to "wear converse" before laughing. That article should be titles "How to dress like the tool that you are"

    And also, the question asked of them was what to buy in a "typical student price range" and they suggest $120 sun glasses and a $250 watch. HAHAHAHAHAHA

    None of those clothes imply maturity to me, nor worthiness of any respect from me. The only good advice in that is to not wear slogan t-shirts. I'm not saying its not good to dress like that, looking like a professional kissass has its advantages I'm sure.

    I'm just glad I don't work in a field where people care about such lame shit, nor do I have friends who care about such lame shit. I don't even own a suit, hell I don't even own a tie. The, I don't know, three times I've ever needed a tie in my life I just borrowed one from my dad.
     
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  2. Stigmata

    Stigmata The Freeman

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    I drank from my own pectus excavatum once. It was prickly. To be fair, it was Pepsi.
     
  3. BabyHeadCrab

    BabyHeadCrab The Freeman

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    I'm actually worried I offended Maestro. He lives in my area and might kill me or something.
     
  4. Remus

    Remus Companion Cube

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    Pretty much this.
     
  5. BabyHeadCrab

    BabyHeadCrab The Freeman

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    Your avatar has an intimidatingly large chin. Also, who the ef is that? I feel ignorant.
     
  6. Remus

    Remus Companion Cube

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    It's the war mage from Orcs Must Die, who acts and sounds suspiciously a lot like Ash from Evil Dead.
     
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  7. BabyHeadCrab

    BabyHeadCrab The Freeman

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    Creeps the shit out of me. Can't explain why.
     
  8. Stigmata

    Stigmata The Freeman

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    It's the forced smile and the piercing, soulless, thousand-yard stare of a spirit forever broken by blood and suffering
     
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  9. Krynn72

    Krynn72 The Freeman

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    But seriously, why can't you just edit your post if you have something new to say a few minutes after your first post?
     
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  10. Maestro

    Maestro The Freeman

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    I'm not offended. I was just trying to clarify whether you were talking about it or not. I don't have pectus excavatum, just for the record. The problem is that my dad was a monster (56" chest). Pectus excavatum is almost entirely an aesthetic problem, it has little impact on chest circumference and may even make it larger. I did find out one of his old jackets is around my size, though. It's a sweet leather jacket, too.
    If I wanted to kill you, though, you'd never know it's coming.

    Unrelated to BHC:
    What I don't understand is why everyone is so offended by these articles. They put out some solid advice on looking like you actually dress to look good, rather than throwing on clothes for work or to bum around the house. There hasn't been one mention so far of "dem corduroys," either. It's mostly obvious shit like stop wearing shirts that say "You Have Died of Dysentery" which stop being funny around halfway through college. It doesn't apply if you work in some industries, like mine (engineering). For anyone who has to deal with customers or people from other companies/departments, though, it's a good way to get others to take you seriously.

    I look at clothes the way aboriginals and native Americans did warpaint: it communicates something to the other people around you before you even open your mouth. It can serve to ingratiate some and intimidate others, but overall it doesn't hurt your impact when you walk into a room dressed with clothes that actually fit and look good.

    Most good style articles address fundamentals, like this one: http://www.artofmanliness.com/2013/04/24/style-pyramid/ where they get into the keys: fit, fabric, and style. Personal style can be original and kind of silly (aforementioned Dysentery shirts come to mind), but it must be balanced with an understanding of what other people are going to think of your style of dress and how it reflects maturity. They advocate spending money not on clothes that look fancy, but that look like they are a mature choice. If an article is telling you to get this year's x, y or z then they're selling something. If they're saying that clothing should have some underlying principles when chosen, then that is who to listen to.
    That's what you misunderstand (not trying to be confrontational). You take their advice as meant for personally for you. It's a general set of principles whose philosophy you should be applying. I can't find it now, but there's a guy who's a pretty well-known style blogger that doesn't own a suit, either. He wrote a whole article about "things you should do" that he doesn't do. Style should be something you do for yourself, not others, but often decisions are a reflection of expectations and their advice is meant to help people who want to exceed the expectations of their surroundings (for say, a business meeting).

    On the sunglasses and watches, though. I agree. Buying cheap sunglasses or watches is just going to mean they let you down. A good pair of sunglasses or a good watch is nice to have, because you don't have to worry about their durability or accuracy. Cheap sunglasses have optical warping from heat exposure, and cheap watches break (or look like crap). I've worn glasses for years for 2/3 of my entire life, and the only glasses I've ever had that I feel I don't have to worry about are the Oakleys I've worn recently. They just don't break. Period. Same goes for watches. I've worn a lot of cheap watches, but my dad wore the same watch for longer than I've been alive before it needed any real repair. It's an application of Vime's Boots Theory of Economic Injustice: the more you spend now, the less you spend in total. It's an investment. Except for Converse, which is dumb. There are charlatans out there, but if you know where to look there's a lot of good advice to be had too.

    When I really started digging, I started to realize the reason style bloggers advocate expensive garments is they last well beyond this year's fashions. I have a jacket from my father that is over 35 years old that still works perfectly, because he spent the money in 1975 for a jacket that he could rely on. Don't buy an oxford cloth button down if you don't want it, but don't spend cash on stuff that wears through either.
     
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  11. BabyHeadCrab

    BabyHeadCrab The Freeman

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    Maestro

    Great rant. My favorite sentence was your bit on "funny shirts" with gaming references. Autism Speaks.

    Fedoras, gamer shirts and gross hair makes me judgmental as ****. Also a little weirded out by folks who grow up and insist on new everything and Ecko and Hip-Hop label Jerseys and Hats with stickers still on and fake diamond earrings or chains. Suddenly they can't pay the rent between all that and cigarettes.

    Che shirts, Dark Side of the Moon Shirts, and Scar Face shirts need to be retired at about age 21/22.

    inb4racist
     
  12. Krynn72

    Krynn72 The Freeman

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    The problem I have with all these guides is that they're all about "conveying." Convey maturity. Convey responsibility.

    The notion of garments conveying anything is not one that should be embraced or advocated. People who let such trivialities direct their opinions of others should not be appeased. Society should be making strides to prevent such baseless judgements, and people offering up and creating these "guides" are flying in the face of that. People should be posting guides that detail how to stop yourself from judging others until you've gotten to know their character.

    Its one thing to buy quality products for their durability, or personal enjoyment. Its another thing to buy them to appease judgmental cocks. It's a sad state of affairs that this is what people have to concern themselves with in order to be taken seriously.
     
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  13. BabyHeadCrab

    BabyHeadCrab The Freeman

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    Clothing quite literally speaks, though. It's a method of communication - and historically a very important one. Primitive clothing was largely used to indicate anything from political status, military status, social class, religious beliefs, faction or affiliation and family.

    There's a reason to keep a diverse wardrobe and embrace some convention to maintain feelings of closeness and allegiance to culture, particularly one you feel part of.

    In brief: fashion might not mean much in the sense of forfeiting comfort and fun but sometimes it's advisable to get over the notion that it's entirely vain to concern yourself with it, it can serve many purposes to uniform and survive in the most primitive sense - and I guess that sort of sucks.

    There are conventions, however you should at least know if you wish to be taken seriously. It helps you get further in life to know how not to look completely posh and out of touch.

    Think for a moment about the things that are comfortable but you'd look ridiculous wearing in public. Well, having nuance and specific tastes in that area can convey a sense of ease in the community which surrounds you. The difference in between your appearance downtime and when you 'go unto the fray' begins a conversation. You care about the most basic definition of fashion by having social intelligence, which most of you have.

    I think the argument begins to become what constitutes fashion, to which I'd answer "a certain savvy or attention to not appearing like a total slob like you were during the weekend" and want to dress according to a certain standard when I go forth into public areas and meeting with peers for the first few times.

    High fashion is stupid, runway fashion is vain and horrific and trends listed in the media are too.

    The key is to define fashion quite simply as 'mind to your wardrobe', at the very least, so that it doesn't impose upon those around you, but so that it is nuanced enough to convey your own sense of uniqueness.
     
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  14. morgs

    morgs The Freeman

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    In my opinion, people generally don't "embrace the conventions" because they feel they are close to their culture. I think it's more a matter of wanting to feel close to their culture, and they probably don't even know why. Probably because they're worried what people will think if they steer away from current trends.

    Fashion means something, but that doesn't make it any less stupid.
     
  15. BabyHeadCrab

    BabyHeadCrab The Freeman

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    It's a necessary evil to some people, but some folks find it fun. What you just typed wasn't even a rebuttal.
     
  16. morgs

    morgs The Freeman

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    I wasn't refuting the fact that people follow fashion, or even that people like to. I mean, to a degree even I wear clothes to fit in, and although for whatever reason I don't practice what I preach, whether to make life easier or, whatever, I still think it's stupid. Mind you, I'd never wear anything that was remotely uncomfortable just because it's in fashion.
     
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  17. CptStern

    CptStern suckmonkey

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    lol do you yuppies still exist?

    [​IMG]

    "that this is a general guide"

    and $250 for a watch isnt a lot of money; that'll get you a half decent timex. it's not saying you should get a tag heuer

    lol have you ever worked in an office? the majority of people wear business atire in the majority of offices around north america. wearing pleated khakis and oversized dress shirt and outdated tie is STILL business attire. this is telling you how to dress professionally taking into account that you either dont want to wear your outdated pleated pants or you dont even have that to begin with



    do you work in the back room or something? the overwhelming majority of businesses have attire guidelines. most dont allow ripped jeans or sandals or even even t-shirts. those that do allow for that sort of wear usually dont have to deal with the public or clients or anyone that matters in any sense of the word. you can dress however you like however people WILL judge you on your appearance and that WILL limit you as to how you are seen. it's shitty but that's reality; a person who is sharply dressed will be respected more 100% of the time than someone dressed like a bum. in my last job I wore jeans a tshirt and sandals most of the time because I rarely interacted with anyone other than developers or managers. as I interacted with companies that were much higher on the totem pole, where workers had much higher salaries and the company had fortune 500 clients I noticed how everyone dressed to reflect that status


    you should get more career minded friends

    my dad has awesome outdated ties from the 1970s but I dont wear them because they're outdated ties from the 70's. you WILL need a tie at some point in your life. you're in your 20's you will have job interviews, you will attend funerals you will have friends who get married. you can go wearing a wearing a short sleeve white dress shirt with sears brand grey slacks and walmart dress shoes and a skinny red tie or you can dress like you care about your appearance

    dressing well at your work isnt about kissing ass it's about having self respect and looking professional because it matters. people see you differently and that's completely unavoidable
     
  18. Krynn72

    Krynn72 The Freeman

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    I've held two jobs in an office. One I had to wear khakis and a black shirt for, the other I could wear anything I wanted for (one of my co-workers wear the "communist party" shirt a few times). But this is irrelevant to my point (which I believe I made clearer in my subsequent post).


    Nope. My current job has me working up front with customers direct.
    you can dress however you like however people WILL judge you on your appearance and that WILL limit you as to how you are seen. it's shitty but that's reality;[/quote]
    And there's my point. Its shitty, so why do we reinforce the notion?

    I've had several interviews. Never needed a tie for one, and I've gotten most of the jobs I've interviewed for.

    I have.

    I have. Was a casual dress affair (remember that bit about my friends not caring?)

    "People see you differently"... "isn't about kissing ass" ... uh huh. You're dressing yourself for other people, that's pretty much kissing ass. As for it being unavoidable, that's defeatist talk and I'll have none of it!
     
  19. CptStern

    CptStern suckmonkey

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    sounds like a uniform not business casual
    , the other I could wear anything I wanted for (one of my co-workers wear the "communist party" shirt a few times). But this is irrelevant to my point (which I believe I made clearer in my subsequent post).


    I work with doctors, policy makers and beaurucrats

    because people expect you to at least try. throwing on jeans and an ironic t-shirts isnt trying to appear professional. and why would you ruin a first impression just out of some notion that you shouldnt? if I'm a hiring manager and the person I'm interviewing comes in wearing a Che t-shirt, sandals and ripped jeans he'd better have the best resume ever written because he's already lost points the second he walked in. this is reality; it's what happens in the work place every single day. You will never work for a fortune 500 company



    did you wear dress clothes or Che shirt and jeans?


    did you wear dress clothes or Che shirt and jeans?

    that wont always be the case. you might even be invited to a black tie wedding where pretty much every one is a partner in a law firm, or a CEO or hey maybe even a local politician or two. it happens. and wearing a "suit" you cobbled together ast the last minute will show. you may not care now because you're in your early 20's and think nothign of wearing running shoes with dress pants

    lol ok you can call it whatever you want but you do it for you because YOU want to be taken as a professional. how many lawyers show up to court wearing sneakers and cut off shorts? how many politicians show up to parliament in a hawaiian shirt?
     
  20. morgs

    morgs The Freeman

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    I wore a suit to my Grandad's funeral, because I felt he'd appreciate it if he knew. I don't mind dressing up for a wedding, but I can't stand it when it becomes about what looks good in photos.
     
  21. CptStern

    CptStern suckmonkey

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    but you wouldnt wear a hunter green double breasted suit with padded shoulders and matching tapered pleated pants with a cuff would you?
     
  22. Stigmata

    Stigmata The Freeman

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    Tautology: The Thread( : The Pun).
     
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  23. Krynn72

    Krynn72 The Freeman

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    My first job was for a Fortune 100 company. Zing. Number 89 son. Paid shit money for soul destroying work.

    I wore my every day clothes. Khakis, black t-shirt with a black button up shirt (actually buttoned up, at work or casually I don't actually button it up). I did wear a really comfortable pair of fancyman shoes though. At work/casually I wear black New Balance sneakers, and sometimes I switch Khakis for blue jeans.

    Same as above.

    I'm in my late 20s actually. The thing is, if its a wedding or something for somebody I care about, I will dress as they want me to because I like them. They already know my opinions on fashion, so if they insist I know its important to them and I value that more than I value random strangers' opinions.

    I'm not saying it doesn't have an effect. I'm saying people should stop letting it have an effect. I'd be 100% a-ok if a congressman came to work in a hawaiian t-shirt and did his job effectively (in fact, I feel like perhaps I'd be more inclined to distrust a man in a suit and think of them as less mature due to the behavior of these "professionals" we have running things now). But letting clothes affect your treatment of someone is just as stupid as letting silverware orientation at the dinner table affect it. People should stop reinforcing the notion that its ok to judge people this way. If you want to talk about gaming people's misguided opinions, fine, I'll buy that. But don't present it like its a reasonable thing for people to do.
     
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  24. CptStern

    CptStern suckmonkey

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    low salary in a fortune 100 company? they usually pay better than average in my experience. at least the companies I've worked for


    black t-shirt with dress shit ....maaaaaan. I hate khakis, makes everyone look lumpy in the midsection


    dude my asian 50+ year old IT guy wore that. you dress older than me!!! ;)

    which is ok if you pair it with nice shoes. black running shoes and khakis dont go all that well together


    tool:

    [​IMG]

    not a tool:

    [​IMG]

    again I'm not saying this is what you should wear. It's obviously about personal taste however it's a universal thing much like how wearing a 3 moon wolf shirt tucked into pleated khakis and held up with a rope belt that has holsters for your smart phone and pc repair tool kit is seen as ugly by most people.


    it also about how see yourself. it's not all about how other people see you. clothes do have an affect on self esteem and how you carry yourself


    but that's unrealistic. people will judge you on your appearance within 30 seconds of meeting you and that's entirely unavoidable. it sucks but that's reality

    this is the former mayor of Toronto:

    [​IMG]

    this is the current mayor of Toronto:

    [​IMG]

    who would you take more seriously?the fat slob guy is a tool and the other guy is the best mayor we've had in decades. the fat guy looks like a slob; I dont want a slob for a mayor

    what if he dressed like this?

    [​IMG]

    that's Hockey commentator Don Cherry who is known for his outrageous suits however outside of hockey circles he's pretty much seen as a tool. his clothes reflect that

    but it's not. would you rather hire someone who shows up to an interview wearing cut off shorts or a suit? one looks like he took the time to fit into the corporate culture of the office and the other looks like he doesnt give a shit about corporate culture. a HR friend of mine who has literally done thousands of job interviews has said that if you dont dress the bare minimum in terms of professionalism than you'll have a much harder time in the job interview. he says you'd better wow him with his skills and personality to recover from that. it reflects poorly on the person as they have little respect for the company if they cant even dress the part

    it will never happen in any way shape or form. the way you dress is a class thing. it will never change; which is why we all dont wear a single uniform

    it is a reasonable thing to do because people have been doing it since the dawn of mankind
     
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  25. morgs

    morgs The Freeman

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    Then again, Hockey commentator dude might not give a shit if people see him as a tool, and likely isn't going to change his dress sense to please those same people. Anyone can wear a fancy suit, but it doesn't change who they really are.
     
  26. CptStern

    CptStern suckmonkey

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    you're right. he's a tool regardless what he wears. the way he dresses just makes it that much more apparent
     
  27. Stigmata

    Stigmata The Freeman

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    My reaction is the opposite. Guess it isn't so "universal".

    We've also been raping, killing, and stealing since the dawn of mankind. You're going to have to do better than that if you want to convince us that business attire is inherently superior attire.
     
  28. BabyHeadCrab

    BabyHeadCrab The Freeman

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    [​IMG]

    I laughed out loud.
     
  29. CptStern

    CptStern suckmonkey

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    oh stiggy, those things are actual crimes and pretty much everyone agrees they're not good things. making fun of people for the way they're dressed is an acceptable pastime

    [​IMG]



    more Mayor Ford:


    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    the guy is a huge(lol) embarrassment
     
  30. Stigmata

    Stigmata The Freeman

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    The second guy is far more a tool than the first two. They may be wearing sweaty and distended clothes, but at least it's not "I heard people judge you on your footwear first so please think highly of me" dress shoes, an "am I a Fortune 500 professional yet?" man purse, and a "my mom provides my wardrobe" sweater.
     
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  31. CptStern

    CptStern suckmonkey

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    that's a scene from the movie sideways that came out almost a decade ago. styles change

    also that "tool" is a pic of me. dems fighting words

    no it's not actually me. in any event that guy's shoes are worth more than those two guys outfits put together. expensive shoes are expensive for a reason. try on a pair of $600 italian shoes they're like sticking your foot in a a baby
     
  32. Krynn72

    Krynn72 The Freeman

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    Well, the insult "tool" clearly doesn't mean what one of us thinks it means.

    And I simply will not accept that it is inevitable and unavoidable that people will treat you different based on your clothes. A biased first impression, maybe, I can't avoid that sometimes either. But anybody who is aware that they're creating an unfounded bias can overcome that in the very next second of thought.

    And of course that guy in the pic wasn't you, he doesn't even have an oxygen tank with him.
     
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  33. morgs

    morgs The Freeman

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    If people treat me different me different because of the clothes I wear, that's their issue. I'm not going to put on a pair of $600 Italian shoes in order to make them think better of me. I'd rather be myself and save some money.
     
  34. Maestro

    Maestro The Freeman

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    This thread is like a room with a fire in it and the doors closed. Every time someone opens it the backdraft seems to bring it roaring back to life.
    I think you make a good point on what should be the case. The problem is that this does not, and has never, reflected reality. Clothing styles, like language, came into existence as a social tool for excluding those outside the clan group. The first impression you make, like it or not, is going to be one that carries weight with most people. I think Stern has been making a bit too hardline of a case for dressing well, but he makes some solid points about how people view others based on their clothing.

    Dunbar's number pretty effectively describes why things like clothing and mannerisms will always carry weight: we can't get to know everyone we are acquainted with intimately. Well, you can, but only if you live in a podunk nowhere town of 150 people. Once you get above a group around that size then you can no longer keep track of who people are with a substantive level of accuracy.

    Personally, I dress well because I like to. I can't afford to do it every day of the week, but if I could I would. I can understand how this grates on some people, and I don't expect everyone to give a shit the difference between a silk, cotton, satin, or oxford cloth dress shirt. The fact is, though, that knowing about these things and keeping them in mind when choosing a manner of dress speaks volumes to others. Like I said: clothing is the modern warpaint. If your friends are judging you based on your clothes, you need better friends. Expecting strangers on the street, or even coworkers and acquaintances, to do the same is living in a fantasy land. You can try to be Steve Jobs or Mark Zuckerberg and wear the same thing every day without fail, but there's a 100% chance that will not work. They get away with these things because they are celebrities. For the rest of us, our reputation does not precede us and will be based in no small part on first impressions for most people.

    This is particularly applicable for people who work in higher-income jobs. I intend to go into the engineering field. Dressing well immediately puts me at least a step or two ahead of others, since engineers are notoriously unconcerned with appearances in the worst possible way (Dilbert comes to mind). This attitude hurts more than it helps in a professional setting, especially since I intend to get into a field where I interact with a lot of people in passing and want to make an immediate impression that sticks in a positive way. If I'm down on a factory floor, no way am I wearing a button-down shirt. That shit's just going to get caught in something and result in some missing fingers. I'd probably be in a polo and some good jeans with sensible (read: steel-toe) shoes. Style is not just about suits and expensive shoes, it's also about adjusting your mode of dress to the occasion. I hope I'm making sense here.

    I actually would like to make a defensive case for hats:
    I wear a weatherproof suede fedora. I don't wear this fedora unless the weather demands I do so, since I hate carrying an umbrella. Poppers and other passe shit like small-brim fedoras and bowlers, however, should be burned en masse. The problem with hats is they require a very careful balance, one which is lost on the vast majority of the "hat wearing" crowd like the idiots in my school's gaming club that wear cheap trench coats damn near year-round.

    The t-shirt thing is a good point, though I think there are exceptions for graphic tees that style bloggers hate on so much. I like "Life Is Good" shirts since they're fun and comfortable. Are they particularly good-looking? No. Do they wear well over time and reflect my attitude in an effective, non-serious manner? Yes. No way am I wearing one in an official setting, but bumming around town hell yeah.
     
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  35. kineaesth

    kineaesth Guest

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    I'd love to see you in a hat
     
  36. Vegeta897

    Vegeta897 Banned as all fuck

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  37. Maestro

    Maestro The Freeman

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    I'm not sure how to feel about that request. But on that note, I just got one of the famous Zombieland hats for this summer since I'll be working outside at high altitude for a few months. It is much wider than I anticipated. I forgot Woody Harrelson is a wide 6'3" man. It's probably good, though. I'm not a particularly burn-resistant person and the ball caps we get issued just don't cut it.
     
  38. Stigmata

    Stigmata The Freeman

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    **** fashion B)

    yes i just bought this today, no i did not iron it yet, yes i will eventually

    [​IMG]
     
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  39. BabyHeadCrab

    BabyHeadCrab The Freeman

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    lil v-neck action
     
  40. Maestro

    Maestro The Freeman

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    V-necks are best necks. I also say this as someone with a disproportionately large neck, though. :\

    I am obliging Kinaesth's (somewhat creepy) request. I want to show off my cool new hat because I am a consumer whore.
     

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