• EXCLUSIVE: Next-Gen Source 2 Engine Is In Development

    Discussion in 'News' started by -smash-, Aug 6, 2012.

    Updates 1 & 2: [check bottom of post]

    Our resident investigator Barnz has done some more digging in the Source Filmmaker script files, and he's uncovered probably some of the biggest news we've ever reported on our site.

    [IMG]

    He's found many more references to a "Source 2", but not just one vague line like our previous entry. We're only one file deep, and already it's clear that the references to "Source 2" are indeed referring to a next-gen engine that Valve is currently developing. I'm only going to show one line in this post, but there are about 60+ references here, and this one line is probably the most telling.

    Here's the code paste at Pastebin.com, and this is the file path on the harddrive:

    ".../SourceFilmmaker/game/sdktools/python/global/lib/site-packages/vproj/vproj.py"

    [IMG]
    Line 1387:
    '''Return an str with the current engine version.
    If key doesn't doesn't exist, assume 'Source', otherwise invalid -- assume next-gen 'Source 2'.'''
    [IMG]

    There are references to Source, Hybrid, and Source 2 in this file. We speculate that Hybrid is the base for which Source 2 is sitting on. Barnz also says it looks like Source 2 is using the same pipeline as Source, meaning that it will probably be keeping its .BSP level format. We haven't found any references to DirectX or OpenGL yet, or Episode Three for that matter, but we're still investigating.

    The Ep3 reference from before was just a comment, so it's unlikely we'll find any more mentioning of it. Source Filmmaker was in development parallel to Source 2, hence why these script files have so many references to the new engine.

    Valve wants you to know that they "don't like to brag, but Source is considered the most flexible, comprehensive, and powerful game development environment out there. And it's about to get even better."

    We'll keep you posted if we find anything else! Or if you come across some new stuff, we'd like to help you share it with the world, so you can submit any findings to news@valvetime.net.

    [IMG]

    Update #1

    Another member from Facepunch, GameDev, has pointed out that there are some new "Source 2 tools" icons stashed away in the SFM files. Here's a preview of a few of them:

    [IMG]

    And the file names in their respective order...
    • appicon
    • terrain_tool_toggle_control_cage
    • terrain_tool_select_verts
    • terrain_tool_edge_smooth
    • paint_tool_icon
    • scale_tool_icon
    You can find these at:

    ".../SourceFilmmaker/game/platform/tools/images/hammer"

    [IMG]

    Update #2

    J*Rod from Facepunch has noted a few new things in his recap. First, now there's some evidence that suggests Source 2 will take more advantage of 64-bit systems. You can find the reference at:

    ".../SourceFilmmaker/game/sdktools/python/global/lib/site-packages/vproj/vprojUI.py"

    [IMG]
    Line 1540:
    # Disable 64-bit for 32-bit projects
    if ( self.engine in ENGINE.SOURCE_FAMILY ) or ( self.engine == ENGINE.HYBRID ):
    self***n32bitCheckBox.setChecked( True )
    self***n32bitCheckBox.setDisabled( True )
    else:
    self***n32bitCheckBox.setDisabled( False )
    [IMG]

    From what I can understand, this if/else statement is disabling 64-bit for 32-bit projects that are from either the Source, SFM (the 2nd engine from SOURCE_FAMILY), or Hybrid engines. But, it's not disabling 64-bit for Source 2, so the take away here is that it's suggesting Source 2 supports 64-bit. But it's not for sure as I don't understand the entirety of the code.

    You'll remember that Valve had implemented support for 64-bit in Source way back in 2005 with the release of The Lost Coast, but Valve hasn't added the support to any of their other games due to some cases of poor performance and glitches.

    Second, currently Valve's game models are of the MDL format. Well, it appears that Valve will be moving to a new format, VMDL. And the "V" prefix is popping up all over the place. VGAME, VPROJ, VMOD, VMDL, etc, which could support the fact that they're going to use a new filesystem and pipeline. From:

    ".../SourceFilmmaker/game/sdktools/python/global/lib/site-packages/filesystem/valve.py"

    [IMG]
    Line 138:
    '''A "Valve Path" is one that is relative to a mod - in either the game or content tree.

    Ie: if you have a project with the content dir: d:/content and the game dir: d:/game
    a "Valve Path" looks like this: models/awesomeProps/coolThing.vmdl

    To resolve this path one must look under each mod the current project inherits from.
    So a project "test" which inherits from "another" would result in the following searches:
    d:/content/test/models/awesomeProps/coolThing.vmdl
    d:/content/another/models/awesomeProps/coolThing.vmdl...'''
    [IMG]

    And just as well, the key values that current Source games have are stored in a file called gameinfo.txt. It looks like Source 2 games will be storing these values in a gameinfo.gi.

Comments

Discussion in 'News' started by -smash-, Aug 6, 2012.

  1. MuToiD_MaN
    Exciting times, fellas.
  2. The RaDaMaNt
    Gabe leads us to new era of gaming:bounce:
  3. SpotEnemyBoats
    I think L4D has some great AI and Portal 2 has some great NPC animation, but the current Source engine branch is far from being an elite engine. CSGO still doesn't have full blown global illuminization, physics are a bit clunky and alot of textures still look like from Quake 1 (being low res). I know gameplay is more important, but I think visual fidelity is pretty important when it comes to art assets. A benchmark franchise like Half-Life needs that jump in tech that makes you say 'wow, that was ****ing amazing'

    Its important to note that Valve said they haven't had a chance to make serious upgrades to the engine because they've been busy making games, making Steam better, etc. So I'm excited to hear what Gabe has to say about all of this.
  4. LilJoe
    class ENGINE( object ):
    '''
    Known engine names
    '''
    SOURCE = 'Source'
    SOURCE2 = 'Source 2'
    SFM = 'SFM'
    HYBRID = 'Hybrid'
    ALL = 'All'
    SOURCE_FAMILY = ( SOURCE, SFM )
    SOURCE2_FAMILY = ( SOURCE2, HYBRID )
    ALL_ENGINES = ( SOURCE,
    SOURCE2,
    SFM,
    HYBRID
    )


    Interesting.....
  5. Trooper
    Nice find and thanks for posting!
  6. ACelibateClergy
    Hybrid could just be a term for a hybrid between Source 1 and Source 2 for something, maybe a cinematic. I wouldn't read that far into it. It would seem so with the "SOURCE_FAMILY" term.
  7. scherzo
    Nah, I`m gonna wait for Source 2 Episode 1 =P
  8. LilJoe
    That whole thing is code I found in a file called "constants.py".

    Here's another interesting one I think:

    if engine == 'Source':
    # Example: C:\Dev\tools\python\generic
    pyPath = Path( r'{0}\python\generic'.format( toolsDir, version, arch ) ).unresolved()
    else:
    # Example: C:\Dev\source2\main\game\sdktools\python\2.6\win32
    pyPath = Path( r'{0}\python\{1}\{2}'.format( toolsDir, version, arch ) ).unresolved()
    return pyPath

    That path in the second example seems to indicate the devs have a directory for Source 2.

    Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
  9. SpotEnemyBoats
    Did a little research and I found out Hybrid is a Source engine game for Xbox live marketplace, a 3rd person sci-fi shooter.

    A little peculiar it mentions Hybrid in the same light as SFM, Source and Source 2. Is the game hybrid just coincidence and also a name of an engine at Valve, or its basically just the game? Hmm.
  10. LilJoe
    Uhhh, this isn't about Source 2 or anything, but I did find a VTF file named "borealis.vtf". Now why would that be in SFM........
  11. LilJoe
    "C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\steamapps\common\SourceFilmmaker\game\hl2\materials\environment maps\borealis_003.vtf"
  12. LilJoe
    No joke, if you do a search for "borealis" in windows explorer in "C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\steamapps\common\SourceFilmmaker\game\hl2", you will get a good amount of stuff. Lots of VTF's.
  13. -smash-
    That is a recycled art asset. IIRC, it's been there since HL2 was released.
  14. Warped Dan
  15. -smash-
    A rather large Update... 64 bit? New filesystem?


    Update #2

    J*Rod from Facepunch has noted a few new things in his recap. First, now there's some evidence that suggests Source 2 will take more advantage of 64-bit systems. You can find the reference at:

    ".../SourceFilmmaker/game/sdktools/python/global/lib/site-packages/vproj/vprojUI.py"

    [IMG]
    Line 1540:
    # Disable 64-bit for 32-bit projects
    if ( self.engine in ENGINE.SOURCE_FAMILY ) or ( self.engine == ENGINE.HYBRID ):
    self***n32bitCheckBox.setChecked( True )
    self***n32bitCheckBox.setDisabled( True )
    else:
    self***n32bitCheckBox.setDisabled( False )
    [IMG]

    From what I can understand, this if/else statement is disabling 64-bit for 32-bit projects that are from either the Source, SFM (the 2nd engine from SOURCE_FAMILY), or Hybrid engines. But, it's not disabling 64-bit for Source 2, so the take away here is that it's suggesting Source 2 supports 64-bit. But it's not for sure as I don't understand the entirety of the code.

    You'll remember that Valve had implemented support for 64-bit in Source way back in 2005 with the release of The Lost Coast, but Valve hasn't added the support to any of their other games due to some cases of poor performance and glitches.

    Second, currently Valve's game models are of the MDL format. Well, it appears that Valve will be moving to a new format, VMDL. And the "V" prefix is popping up all over the place. VGAME, VPROJ, VMOD, VMDL, etc, which could support the fact that they're going to use a new filesystem and pipeline. From:

    ".../SourceFilmmaker/game/sdktools/python/global/lib/site-packages/filesystem/valve.py"

    [IMG]
    Line 138:
    '''A "Valve Path" is one that is relative to a mod - in either the game or content tree.

    Ie: if you have a project with the content dir: d:/content and the game dir: d:/game
    a "Valve Path" looks like this: models/awesomeProps/coolThing.vmdl

    To resolve this path one must look under each mod the current project inherits from.
    So a project "test" which inherits from "another" would result in the following searches:
    d:/content/test/models/awesomeProps/coolThing.vmdl
    d:/content/another/models/awesomeProps/coolThing.vmdl...'''
    [IMG]

    And just as well, the key values that current Source games have are stored in a file called gameinfo.txt. It looks like Source 2 games will be storing these values in a gameinfo.gi.
  16. tenyuhuang
    For the new icons, did anyone remember that Valve said they're working on new Source SDK tools due to frequent complaint from the developer community on outdated editor and tools in the official Source SDK wiki?