Degeneration of HalfLife2.Net

Discussion in 'ValveTime Feedback' started by Acepilotf14, Feb 2, 2008.

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  1. Acepilotf14

    Acepilotf14 Sucked so much dick for this title

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    I'm afraid it is beginning. I mean, several threads on 4chan within the last 2 weeks? Good Lord, I bet Darkside has gone crazy by now. I remember when the slightest mention of 4chan sparked a fairly small flamefest, and then it was forgotten about. Now, supporters? What?! Danimal is nearly nowhere to be seen, he just doesn't come around very much anymore. The death of the Newbie forum was harsh~ It might have caused a small portion of this. Threads malignantly breaking the rules. A thread about suicide? I mean come on. Really, the only way to contain such an epidemic would be to create a spam thread, but the administration doesn't want that. It would be pointless anyway. I mean, I appreciate the few threads where we can have a hearty discussion, where someone doesn't come in and ruin it by posting some crappy meme, someone else laughs, and then someone else gets mad. A good example of a nice thread was that thread informing us that Marijuana now has Vending Machines in California. It may not seem like it, but I do love debating. A nice debate with the few... intelligent members of this forum is very enlightening, and I've learned a whole lot from these forums. So, let's go into the off-topic forum and look at a few of the threads.. hmm..
    *Captain Crunch or Captain Morgan
    What? What kind of pointless poll is that? I mean, it's not like Bowsniper hasn't already made a few hundred pointless polls. I've made a few as well, but everyone does at some point. As Vegeta said, This forum is slowly turning into 4chan. Whatever happened to Munro, anyway? I haven't seen him around. Our founder, not around? What does that tell you?
    A: We're screwed.
    B: Nothing is wrong.
    C: Insert compulsory vaguely funny poll option that does not have anything to do with the actual poll.

    OH LOOK
    ANOTHER POLL!

    Anyway, let's look at another thread...
    *Orange Box contents to be separated at sale.
    Not bad. Not bad at all. A completely normal, informative, essential thread made to tell the readers that.. well, the contents are going to be separated. but OH LOOK, the thread turns into a mindless brawl over 'why shud i buy teh ob it has like 5 games, i alrdy own 2 of them so i must b losin monies.' You are not losing money, and no, they are not baked into the price. They are FREE. Really, you're even getting a discount off the original 3 games, EP2, Portal, and TF2, Of about $20. Who can ****ing argue with that price? Apparently someone can.

    Now, let's go into a less-traveled forum.. say.. Fan Fiction and Reading.
    Gosh, I do love reading.
    Hmmm.. A completely normal forum. Nothing out of the ordinary or stupid, besides the rare horrible fan-fic someone writes.

    Really now, what is going on? I'm fairly afraid of what the future of HL2.net will be, what with Episode 3 just beyond the horizon, and the fate of our community. Why don't we get together to play more? Why not get together, maybe we could all play a hearty game of Company of Heroes, or whatever. Steam Community has brought us closer together, but not close enough. What we need? We need to abandon using 4chan as a form of laughter, and come up with our own. I've heard of a time before mine, when inside jokes were abundant, and newer members wouldn't understand. Such times can still be seen by Glenn(?)'s comic. Also, be respectful to your '03'rs. They've been here since the origins, and deserve a bit more respect than us recent joiners.

    I just look at society, and it makes me sadder every day. What have we become? Really, look inside yourself. Is this really who you are? Have you been infected by the 'Anonymous' factor? Perhaps yes, perhaps not, but either way you won't act as you do if that person was next to you. We have such a short, meaningless life, and if you don't do something with it, who will remember you? If you read a peasant's name from 1266, it's accurate, then their life was meaningful. They were remembered. What will society remember you for? Even Hitler was memorable, in a bad way, of course. But he made an impact on our way of life. Do you think, some day, future members of hl2.net, if it's still in existence, will look back on us with respect? Likely not. They won't give a shit. Do you want to know who will be remembered forever? Einstein, Edison, all these people made major advances in science, and in life itself. They made it possible so we could talk on forums all day and play video games. What will you do? Will you make a major advancement in life? Maybe you will invent something that is revolutionary, bringing on a whole new age of thinking? No, you'll be playing Team Fortress 2 all day. Yes, it's fun, but really, is it meaningful? It only brings on immediate pleasure. But working toward a good job has long-lasting pleasure, perhaps not immediate.

    Think about it.
     
  2. Pesmerga

    Pesmerga Newbie

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    Oh shut up.

    And by the way, HL2.net has lots of tf2 games. We just don't invite you.
     
  3. Acepilotf14

    Acepilotf14 Sucked so much dick for this title

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    How fast did you read that?
    I also believe you just furthered my point.
     
  4. 99.vikram

    99.vikram Tank

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    There were a few good points buried in that massive pile of filler and sensationalism.
     
  5. Pi Mu Rho

    Pi Mu Rho ValveTime Admin | Enemy of fun
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    Oh noes, hl2.net is circling the drain! AGAIN.
    Do you know how many times over the years someone has said what you've said? I've lost count, personally.

    It's very simple. People come and go. The overall personality of a forum changes as the makeup of the members changes. Some people don't like it, and see it as an overall decline. It's not. Forums aren't static.
     
  6. Vegeta897

    Vegeta897 Banned as all fuck

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    Somewhat agreed here...

    Some of these threads are just too much.

    I really don't have a problem with fun spammy threads. I partake in them myself occasionally. Moderators usually take care of them anyway.

    I firmly believe in HL2.net retaining the boundaries that existed when this forum was better, back in the day. That's why I'm not hesitant to express my views when threads that I feel do not belong on hl2.net crop up. Such as the hot girls thread, or the suicide thread.

    I was just talking to Danimal on MSN regarding those thread closures. He says he wants to quit moderating. He doesn't visit hl2.net very much at all anymore. Why? He says hl2.net sucks now. I have to agree to some degree, there are definitely less cool things and nice juicy discussions happening here. Threads are constantly devoured by memes or flames.

    Now I know what some of you are going to say. "Oh boy, another "hl2.net sucks now lololol" whiny bitchy thread."

    Yeah, well saying that doesn't mean it isn't true, and it definitely isn't constructive to the thread.

    There have been threads like this before tons of times, but it only gets worse. It's not even just that hl2.net is changing like it used to be... it's practically taking on the form of other sites that we should be holding ourselves higher than, such as 4chan. I am seriously blaming that site. Look how many fine people of hl2.net it has turned into idiots. Okay, not idiots, but people who are more likely to post nonsense than contribute to intelligent discussion. We're seriously lacking it.

    The only realistic solution I can see is more moderation. Moderators are right when they say they are lenient. They damn well are. I hate to say it but it's as if we're having a bit too much fun on here. I think moderators and all of us members as a whole frowining upon nonsense fleeting humor would better help us restore some solid intelligent, interesting, genuinely entertaining threads and posts.

    Unfortunately having fun is really damn fun... It's hard to resist. It would be really great if we could think of a way to have our silly fun on occasion without overdoing it. A subforum for it, As Pilot said, is probably not going to happen. (heh, even though it passes the first test, "are there enough threads to warrant it?") I really don't know what we could do about it. Maybe just a day of the week where silliness is allowed. Sounds kind of dumb, I know, but times have changed, and so we must cope.

    Edit: Oops, looks like Pi beat me to it.

    Every time one of these threads happen, it's inspired by new reasons. New reasons every time, man. Your response, however, is always the same. Chances are, one of these reasons we bring up is eventually going to do some real damage.

    Or maybe not.

    You know what? We usually shrug and move on as threads like these die, and the problems either remove themselves or we get used to them... But I think these threads perhaps contribute to that. At least subconciously, regulars who read these threads will tend to help out in getting hl2.net back on track. Even if these threads don't do shit, I still think they are important to have posted. It's your forum, damnit, this is what the members think. I find the attitudes like Pi's to be a completely inappropriate response to a thread like this.

    ALSO!!

    Keep in mind that threads like these are usually in the proximity of valued veterans or regulars of the community leaving the forum. Danimal, in this case. More may follow.

    So this isn't just "oh let's just ignore this and it will fix itself" it is in fact harmful to hl2.net
     
  7. Evo

    Evo Tank

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    Agreed!

    I also feared this kind of thread was going to appear sooner or later.
     
  8. Vegeta897

    Vegeta897 Banned as all fuck

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    At the very least, dear moderators, take this thread as a request for better moderation.

    Expected response: "oh wahhh its haarrrrdd ;("
     
  9. Evo

    Evo Tank

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    Danimal has gone so I assume someone new will come along, hope they can do the job that is needed.
     
  10. Danimal

    Danimal Companion Cube

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    I honestly hope it's either Jintor or Absinthe.
     
  11. 99.vikram

    99.vikram Tank

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    Pi Mu Rho may remember an identical thread that popped up just months back. The forum has continued to go downhill since then. I remember posting long, thought out responses to topics here, but I haven't done that in weeks - mostly because the 'New Posts' page is invariably filled with frivolous things like Hot Girls that nobody likes to read but everybody likes to post in. Threads like those should be closed before they start.

    Moderators should set the tone of the forums and not the members. That's critical.

    Also, Danimal, it was you that gave me an infraction for making a Bacon post. Just thought you should know. :p
     
  12. Danimal

    Danimal Companion Cube

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    That bacon thing was never funny to begin with. :/
     
  13. Pi Mu Rho

    Pi Mu Rho ValveTime Admin | Enemy of fun
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    So, iron fist moderation it is then.

    Be careful what you wish for.

    Also - you know what makes the forums suck? The members, not the moderators.


    Edit:

    I seem to recall that the last thread about this kind of thing was complaining that we were too harsh. Now we're too lenient? I should point out that nothing has changed as a result of the last thread, only people's perceptions. You can't keep going "softer, softer, no...harder, a bit harder...now softer again" until you think it's right. Still, we shall see what will be.
     
  14. Vegeta897

    Vegeta897 Banned as all fuck

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    Pi, I find your lack of wanting to work with us, and instead always trying to teach us lessons or show how much better you know the forums to be incredibly immature.

    I didn't say be some kind of super moderator. Not at all. Even if I did, I'm just one voice, just one opinion.

    You grasp at straws any chance you get to disagree with me. It's time to end that.

    Why can't you just work WITH us for once? Nobody is trying to start a fight.

    In response to your edit, you're probably right. What the **** do we know. It's hard to gauge shit in an evolving community. I'll just be quiet now then.

    I still stick by the rest of this post though, Pi.
     
  15. Pesmerga

    Pesmerga Newbie

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    I think pi mu rho is a pretty cool guy. eh iron fists the forums and doesnt afraid of anything.
     
  16. 99.vikram

    99.vikram Tank

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    Desperate times call for desperate measures.

    No, IIRC most of the complaining was about Glenn not clearly specifying why a thread was closed.
     
  17. Pi Mu Rho

    Pi Mu Rho ValveTime Admin | Enemy of fun
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    Work WITH you to do what? Form a committee for the Forward Movement and Betterment of the Forums? Believe it or not, I don't go out of my way to disagree with you, you really don't mean that much to me - it just happens naturally.

    What I said earlier is exactly right. The makeup of the members changes. The trends change, the overall mood and feel changes. Some people inevitably feel that it's changed too much for them and that it's going downhill. Some people leave, new people arrive. Rinse and repeat.
     
  18. Pesmerga

    Pesmerga Newbie

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    May I recommend these for any potential fisting, Pi?

    [​IMG]
     
  19. Vegeta897

    Vegeta897 Banned as all fuck

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    You know what I meant when I said work with us. As in, try to address our points with a bit more care and explain in a less opposing way why we are wrong. We're ALL on the same team at hl2.net. We ALL want a good community. Your posts in here are very negative towards us, where you could have been far less douchey about it. Take a look at how Glenn does it, if you want examples.

    Also, you seemed to just ignore my comment about you purposely misinterpreting me in a pathetic attempt to teach me a lesson in getting what I wish for.
     
  20. Pesmerga

    Pesmerga Newbie

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    We're not always on the same team, Veggies.

    Sometimes one of us gets autoswitched and then Pitz goes Sniper because he doesn't have a medic anymore.

    And we all know what a great sniper Pitz is.
     
  21. Evo

    Evo Tank

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    And that Pes is an example of why someone made this thread =/
     
  22. Pesmerga

    Pesmerga Newbie

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    This thread is a joke. I'm just making it funny!
     
  23. Danimal

    Danimal Companion Cube

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    FYI, Pi.

    Your forgot to remove my powers.
     
  24. Vegeta897

    Vegeta897 Banned as all fuck

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    And lower taxes!
     
  25. Pi Mu Rho

    Pi Mu Rho ValveTime Admin | Enemy of fun
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    Fixed. You are now a pleb.
     
  26. Danimal

    Danimal Companion Cube

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    At least I went out with leading by example. I call Pesmerga officially fisted by iron.
     
  27. Asknoone

    Asknoone Newbie

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    "Us"? Come on, less of the Work With Us For BTR 4uture cheese. The reason you get responses you don't like from the staff – people like Pi and myself, for example – is because we don't spin it into a soap opera drama. There's nothing out of the ordinary happening here, nothing different to what's happened before. Forums, members, feel – it all constantly changes, and you can't stop that.

    The real problem is the moaning morons who declare that the forums are not what they once were. “Oh, it was better when "May 2003 member" was here!” Frankly, sod off.
     
  28. Houndini

    Houndini Newbie

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    ranting about it doesn't make it go away, deal with it!
     
  29. Jintor

    Jintor Didn't Get Temp-Banned

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    While I agree with all the moderator points brought up I have to say that this... moderator attitude is seriously not appreciated.

    Is it that hard to say it without the "Any people who make the smallest complaint are idiots?" part?

    /EDIT btw thanks for the vote of confidence Danimal.
     
  30. Crispy

    Crispy Newbie

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    I never go into the Off-Topic forums. As far as I'm aware, they've always been too spammy to bother with. I can't see that they've changed in the slightest.

    On the forums I run we have a dedicated forum for all spam (Rant, Raves and Nonsense - posts made here do not contribute to your postcount). Any topic that's too spammy just gets instantly moved there the second a mod sees it, and any thread derails are moved to a forum for deleted posts that automatically cancels the posts from users' postcounts.

    This means there's a clear line between the relevant and the stupid, and generally people go to RR&N to vent or spam or meme, or they go to Off-Topic to discuss something maturely. For the spammy users it means they have somewhere to spam out, and for the people who prefer a more coherent line of e-conversation, they are guaranteed a secure place to do this.

    Now, our forum community much, much smaller than HL2.net, but I think the principle could work fine. I think the main problem with HL2.net is having enough moderators and setting a clear policy for what is and what isn't permitted behaviour. I find that the forums I visit here on HL2.net (this one, News, 3rd Party mods (excluding Gmod) and Source Editing & Development) are moderated fine. For those complaining, if you have the time to do something about it and think you have the right attitude, maybe you might think about applying to be a moderator for your chosen forum?
     
  31. Pulse

    Pulse Newbie

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    Solution: Stop spending so much time on the forums and go out and get a nice breath of fresh air.

    Also LOL IRONY
     
  32. soulslicer

    soulslicer Tank

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    You know, I just realized the revered Danimal lost his modmanship..

    And I have to agree, these past 7 days, hl2.net has experienced a rather dark period with some pretty horrible threads or posts.
     
  33. Hectic Glenn

    Hectic Glenn Site Director
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    As already said, I won't go over it again, there is a cycle. Members of long dislike the new attitude of the forum generated by newer members, it happens. This site is extremely different to how I remember it being. Change, that's life.

    Danimal has left the team, fair enough he doesn't visit very often anymore and the job will be done by someone else with more dedication.

    We're all ears to what people think of the site, that's what this forum is for. However a lot of the time you must appreciate that everyone gets a different perception on the current state of hl2.net, and we get really mixed messages. We need to sometimes step back and take a subjective overal look and make that decision. It's something the moderating team is always keeping an eye on. Some people in this thread think the moderating is too soft, previously we had complaints of it being too aggressive, and others think it's well done. Who is right?

    There is something right here, because people come back, we come back, I come back. HL2.net has something, it ain't so bad...;)
     
  34. Darkside55

    Darkside55 The Freeman

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    Darkside gon' tell you what the problem is. Problem's newfags. Newfags coming up in here with their shit, spreading their cancer 'round like butter on toast. Back in the day we used to be tight, HL2! Used to have our own injokes, our own original content, but now we just rehash stuff from the past or steal humor from other websites. What happened to those days? We don't even know who we are anymore, HL2.net; we're disjointed and disconnected. I mean, look at the threads we've been having! THE THREADS LATELY HAVE BEEN SHIT, ABSOLUTE SHIT. I'll go up into Off Topic right now, son, and all I'll see is shit. Shit shit shit. But back in the day we used to have good threads; ALL our threads were gold, and the threads that weren't gold went away because either the mods dealt with them or people would ignore them instead of post in 'em like newfags.

    I tell you who else is to blame, it's the administration. This shit never would've flown when the old mods were around, and Munro's flown the coop; probably left for Halflife3.net. We don't even see the mods presence around here anymore and the newfags just run rampant, making shit threads with old content and talking about stupid shit don't nobody care about.

    Let's fucking face it, HL2: we got problems. We got problems with the content, and newbs, and the mods are all but absent, and nobody respects the oldfags, and...

    and...

    ...and I've had this discussion before. *Scratches nose* Yeah, I've seen this exact thing before, talked about it before. All that stuff you just read? 4chan. I've seen this thread before a hundred, a thousand times. Sounds just like it. Replace Munro with Moot and mods with Snacks, yeah, same thread man. "Where's our mods to enforce the rules?" and yet before when the mods are doing their jobs we're all, "Fuck, mods are strict." But now it's like, "These threads suck, blame it on the stupidity of all these members coming in rehashing shit. This never would've happened when <mod> was around." Damn, it's like some kind of perverse deja vu.

    You know the smartest thing /b/ ever said? It's something Pi said in this thread: your user base isn't static. Oldfags want to keep things the way they were, they worry and stress because crappy threads are popping up and no original content's come around in a dog's age. User base changes, trends change. Back in, what, '06, anon said something wise: only thing you can do is make the best of it. Sage the shitty topics, encourage the good, praise good threads and shun the bad. And fuck forced memes, because if I see that cat one more time...

    We don't have sage but we can still ignore. See a thread you don't like? Ignore it. You don't HAVE to reply to it. Polls and suicide threads and eighteen threads a god-damn-day about religion, yeah, just skip right over them. Don't pay them any mind if you don't want to hear about them.

    So we make new stuff of our own. Injokes will invariably spring up. Even without our own original content I've always felt this was a tight community; anybody coming into it molds to it and adds to it. Saying that we're having a digression and wanting to harken back to the "Good Ol' Days;" it just doesn't work like that bro. It never has, anywhere, never will. The internet and its communities are mutable--they can and will change over time, and you can sit in your rocking chair and put on your nostalgia glasses and say, "Well, back in MY day..." all you want, but your day is gone. You either roll with the times or get the fuck out, man; I'm not saying that to be harsh I'm saying that because it's true. You ever get a chance to look at the Map of 4chan, you take a look at those Oldfag Retirement Isles. You take a look sometime at a thread consisting entirely of oldfags just bitching about the days when /b/ was good.

    And then someone comes up in there and says, "/b/ was never good." And that person's correct. That's the guy who's right. It was never good, just different. You either get on with the differences or you find somewhere else to go.

    And I make the comparison to 4chan in this post because it's exactly the same. Y'all know Darkside busts some heads for people talking about 4chan, Darkside'll slap you in a min for it, but I've just gotta say it because this thread just looks and sounds like a hundred, thousand, ten thousand threads on 4chan any given day. "It was better back then; I'm worried about our present state and the future." Almost every day. Man if this really was 4chan this is the part where I'd sage and post a picture of a severed penis.

    tl;dr: Don't trip, Ace. All will be well. Maybe different, but well. You can't stop it so don't worry about it. If nothing else, all the shit topics just make the good topics that much better. When you're in The Lounge reading an awesome topic with a lot of replies, good discussion, good humor, and it's sitting right next to a poll about which hand you wipe your ass with, hey--the topic you're in looks like the best thing you've read in a month.

    No, see, that's where you're wrong. See, a lot of you people on this board have such misplaced notions of 4chan that you don't even know. "Oh, it's just a bunch of idiots posting stupid shit." What you don't get is that, like any other internet community, we've got a broad and diverse range of people who run the gamut from idiots to--and I say this with no hyperbole--geniuses. I tell you true I can have an intelligent discussion on 4chan more often than I can have one on HL2.net, you better believe that. And I'm talking, we get into the sciences and mathematics and philosophy and art...and not just in the special interest boards, I'm talking on /b/.

    It just might happen that a thread discussing mathematics is sitting right above a thread where a girl's taking dog cock in her mouth.

    So please, don't say stupid shit like, "4chan is responsible for making idiots out of HL2.net's members." Obviously if someone's visiting 4chan and bringing back idiocy, they were an idiot to begin with. "The internet makes you stupid" is just a catchphrase; if you're an idiot, you're a goddamned idiot, period. Nobody's making them bring that shit back here, they're doing it themselves. Obviously they found it funny enough to bring back here.

    Also holding yourself higher than someone else ON THE INTERWEBZ is idiocy. The whole reason 4chan exists is to cut loose. More wise words from anon: "The internet's filled with young kids trying to act smart. 4chan's the only place where smart people come to act stupid."

    Not always, my good man. Not always. A moderator can make a forum suck, believe that.

    And members make the board period. Mods only run it and try to file the members in line, but ultimately it is the members that make the board.

    Don't take this reply as anti-establishment or me challenging you or anything, just making a statement of fact. You know I <3.
     
  35. Absinthe

    Absinthe The Freeman

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    One day the mods are being too hard and need to ease up on dumb, "fun" topics.
    The next day, they're apparently not doing enough to stop some spam epidemic.

    All you can do is ride it out.
     
  36. Houndini

    Houndini Newbie

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    lol i agree

    as they say "shit happens"
     
  37. Que-Ever

    Que-Ever Newbie

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    I'm not part of the solution.
     
  38. leib10

    leib10 Tank

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    Well put. It's a common thing for forums of all kinds to change with time. Members change and leave, but usually moderators stay relatively constant (hence why they are moderators). Reminiscing about how the past was so great and how you would like to go back to that time will change absolutely nothing other than piss people off.
     
  39. Dekstar

    Dekstar Companion Cube

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    I Think in general Halflife2.net as a community has been on the up: The zombie thread (which I just lost time for), TF2 member games, Steam community chat, etc.
    Sure we get new people in, as is expected on a forum, and sure, sometimes even I get pissed off, but then again I have also partly been responsible for spam and useless thread contributions too.

    Overall we've seen countless people thinking the forums are dying out. It usually happens in-between Episodes of Half-life 2, or major source releases. We're surviving though, and actually improving by creating distractions for ourselves.
    Ok yeah I agree that threads like that extremely NSFW one about the suicide probably should have been closed earlier, but in general the moderating has been very quick and friendly. Sulk in particular I think did a good job with that WoW powerleveller advertiser, stepping in and editting his post.

    Actually I don't know where I'm going with this. I think things are fine the way they are. Old members may leave, but the majority will probably stay (even after multiple bannings).
     
  40. 15357

    15357 Companion Cube

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    We'll pick up again, we always do. Right guys?
     
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