Breen = Advisor (Possible Spoilers)

Discussion in 'Half-Life' started by Omnomnick, Nov 10, 2007.

  1. Omnomnick

    Omnomnick Retired Lead Content Creator
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    Ok, after playing episode 2 today, while doing 'Riding Shotgun' i noticed during the interuption of Magnusson and Alyxs conversation that breen flashes on the screen, and what appears afterwards....AN ADVISOR!! ('What, a HOST BODY, you must be joking I, oh already then dam it, just hurry hes right behind me, Oh shit') similar to that one recently found during Gman's chat with gordon, screenshot or pausable video would be nice. it's just as he says 'Your heading our way, well I should hope so' or there abouts, DISCUSS, and go watch it for yourself, or get a video here :)
     
  2. Asknoone

    Asknoone Newbie

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    I'm pretty sure Breen is not an Advisor.
     
  3. Atomic_Piggy

    Atomic_Piggy Newbie

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    Exactly.
    Breen bieng an advisor would suck. I felt his death in HL2 was great - he was the first thing we saw as we exited the train, and it gives the game real closure.
     
  4. Zombine

    Zombine Newbie

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    Then why do they keep bringing him back in ep1 and ep2?
     
  5. A Big Fat CoW

    A Big Fat CoW Newbie

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    Golden rule of fiction: if you don't see a body afterwards, the person isn't dead.

    Golden rule of science fiction: Even dead people don't usually stay dead.

    Doesn't mean we'll see breen again, but it's quite a possibility.
     
  6. Absinthe

    Absinthe The Freeman

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    I honestly do not know what you're talking about. Can you clarify?

    Any way, Breen's alive and he's not an advisor.
     
  7. jondy

    jondy Newbie

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    What?
     
  8. Citadel

    Citadel Newbie

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    You make a fair point, he was/is a pretty major and pivotal character to the plot, but I find it fairly hard to believe that he could survive the Dark Matter reactor's explosion. It could be said to imply that without the G-man's intervention you would have faced certain doom. The only reason Gordon survived was because the G-man wanted to save his pawn, however he left Alyx for dead because she was now of no further use to him. I'd say
    The only reason he plucked Alyx from Black Mesa was to motivate Gordon in his assignment. Remember, that without the vortigaunts freeing you, your contract would essentially have been over.

    Breen wasn't that much further away from the explosion than Gordon, even if he was in that weird, protective bubble I'd say that the chances of his survival would have been as likely as a resonance cascade. "Unlikely" but not impossible. ;)
     
  9. Asknoone

    Asknoone Newbie

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    Uh, what?
     
  10. Citadel

    Citadel Newbie

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    That was just a bit of speculation on my part as to his motives on retrieving Alyx from Black Mesa. :)
     
  11. Absinthe

    Absinthe The Freeman

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    Shhh...
     
  12. Asknoone

    Asknoone Newbie

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    :p
    char
     
  13. Absinthe

    Absinthe The Freeman

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    You stick that tongue out at me one more time and I will cut it off.
     
  14. Asknoone

    Asknoone Newbie

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  15. Absinthe

    Absinthe The Freeman

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    [​IMG]

    HE SHALL RISE ONCE AGAIN
     
  16. FrostXian

    FrostXian Newbie

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    He may have become one off-screen. Would be pretty disturbing to see an advisor speak to your mind in his voice, and would also prove to be a worthy boss battle where you perhaps learn how to kill advisors.
     
  17. Absinthe

    Absinthe The Freeman

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    I really don't think it's going to happen. It just doesn't seem like an advisor - the original Combine race and top dog shown thus far - would give up itself to a lowly human that failed to deliver Earth. Turning him into a pyschic slug would just kill the character, and my impression of such an encounter would not be disturbing, but kinda lame.
     
  18. FrostXian

    FrostXian Newbie

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    As lame as it is, tremble in fear as you come to the realization it can happen without harming the plot in anyway, thus, it CAN happen.
    I know I tremble.
     
  19. Absinthe

    Absinthe The Freeman

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    It can happen, but I trust that Valve shot the idea down when they began conceiving the episodes. At least I hope so. :(

    I don't really want to kill Breen either, although I imagine his death will come eventually by my hands in some way or another.
     
  20. Citadel

    Citadel Newbie

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    I agree. It's a possibility but so are as many things that I don't care to mention. It'd be just like Blackadder I.


    Breen in Host Body: Freeman, remember me?

    Gordon: No I'm not sure I do...

    *BIHB peels off fake eyebrows*

    *Gordon gasps*

    :p
     
  21. A Big Fat CoW

    A Big Fat CoW Newbie

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    there's nothing to suggest that the advisors are the "original" race of the Combine.
     
  22. Absinthe

    Absinthe The Freeman

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    Yeah right. Up until Episode 2, they were exclusively portrayed as the power above Breen's throne. They were the ones exerting control and influence over the Overwatch. They were the ones in dialogue with Breen. And you never encountered them in person. They were the looming antagonists, only seen in glimpses from behind a screen.

    It also doesn't hurt that their entire biology and their abilities fit all too plausibly into the role. A highly intelligent, technologically powerful species that evolved to its grub-like form because of lack of physical exertion and a total reliance on machinery. They rarely need to actually fight any more, since they've amassed armies of assimilated species over the course of time to do their bidding.

    There may not be explicit, spoken confirmation in-game yet. But I think they've made it obvious enough.
     
  23. SpectreBlofeld

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    Well... here are my thoughts.

    I think Breen was supposed to go into an Advisor shell, but the plot may have been scrapped. Remember the scene when we first see an Advisor in Episode One, how the screens showed a clip from Breen's final moments right before the Advisor appears?

    I read not long before Ep2 came out that video game voice actors were going on strike. This may (or may not) be what prevented Gossett from returning as the Vortigaunt voice and may also explain the abscence of Barney in Ep II.

    It may have also cock-blocked Valve's plans for Breen.
     
  24. A Big Fat CoW

    A Big Fat CoW Newbie

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    Critical analysis, please.

    Everything that you've said suggests that they are in charge of the Combine (or, at least, the Combine on earth.)

    But none of that means that they started the Combine, as you claim. We've so far had no hint as to the Combine's origins at all, so by making the assumption that we have all the facts (which, in Half-Life, is never true) and labelling something when it's yet to be confirmed, we're doing nothing but jumping to conclusions.
     
  25. Boddah

    Boddah Newbie

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    If Breen has become an Advisor, I will get really pissed off. He ruled the world, he had his own TV show, he was a great character and he died. End of story. I really don?t like idea of soldiers diging him from reactor remains and then resurrect him into new body... He has a great death, so please Valve, let him rest in peace...
     
  26. Asknoone

    Asknoone Newbie

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    Raising the Bar pretty much claims they are the original race.
     
  27. B3nch

    B3nch Newbie

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    I don't think Breen is dead, there is a lot of foreshadowing that he may return, possibly in Episode 3. First, Episode 1 starts off with a Breencast, then Breen's host body monologue plays right before you first see the Advisor pod. In Episode 2, Breen's face flashes on the screen during the Gman sequence, and while I haven't seen it myself, I read that Breen's face also appears for a second on the screen right before the Advisor does during the radio tower transmission scene.

    It may be kind of interesting if when he does return (if he does), he looks like that concept sketch in Raising the Bar where he is just a head on a machine; I think Absinthe posted it a page back.
     
  28. ríomhaire

    ríomhaire Moderator
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    I remember the advisor (and Alyx not noticing it), but not Breen. Screenshot?
     
  29. B3nch

    B3nch Newbie

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    Like I said, I haven't seen it but someone on Steampowered forums said he did. So I'm not sure if Breen really appears there or not.
     
  30. Absinthe

    Absinthe The Freeman

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    You're just needlessly stretching out when the obvious is right in front of you. All the hints are in place in-game. Raising the Bar pretty much confirmed it. And you completely glossed over the fact I pointed out, in which the advisors perfectly fit the mold in terms of their biology.

    This doesn't require critical analysis. It requires you to be less obtuse.
     
  31. Asknoone

    Asknoone Newbie

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    I watched Shawshank Redemption today. Obtuse.
     
  32. PortalStormzzzz

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    Shall we forget that if Glados could have your brain scanned, perhaps the advisers did so too? I say this on two reasons.

    A) like you, Breen seems awfully "ageless" He's around 50 or 60 in HL2. Assuming he was old like the other scientists when administrating at Black Mesa, that would mean he was around 30 or 40. HOW THE HELL CAN SUCH A YOUNG LAD ADMINISTER AN ENTIRE FACILITY?

    B) The advisers put his brain in a slug. It must have been scanned. The Combine wouldn't allow such an important figure to simply get killed off without anyone else leading side by side him to take over.
     
  33. LandStander

    LandStander Newbie

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    Well let's not forget that there were troops still alive on the citadel even after the dark matter explosion which means that Breen sinking down could have saved his life not to mention he was in some kind of bubble that looked one would imagine could sustain a lot of damage. I still think Breen may be an advisor though. If the writers are hinting that he is, they are not being to subtle.
     
  34. Bad^Hat

    Bad^Hat The Freeman

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    A good part of me hopes he's dead, but it seems like Valve doesn't want it to stay that way, if not in a completely physical sense. I think the most likely outcome is that he makes another appearance, but as something completely different to what we've seen, maybe something like that concept Absinthe posted. Encountering a regular Advisor that you're only lead to believe is Breen seems very un-Valve like. They like to give their characters strong physical distinguishing features so you feel an immediate connection. To have Breen reappear but not look anything like Breen would just be... weird. And lame.

    Another thought: One of Valve's main influences for HL2 is quite obviously War of the Worlds - what were the original race in that? Slugs. Or rather, giant leathery husks of brain with tentacles, but close enough.
     
  35. A Big Fat CoW

    A Big Fat CoW Newbie

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    Try backing up your argument with evidence instead of saying "NO UR RONG".

    You made a point, I countered. You disagreed, I explained why I think you're wrong. And now you're just, in your own words, glossing over my argument without actually refuting anything I said.

    You say RtB confirms your claim. Okay. What page? What paragraph? Because I've read RtB front to back, and I certainly don't remember it ever suggesting that the advisors created the Combine.

    I'm not necessarily even suggesting that they didn't, but what I am saying is that we don't know if they did. We already know that they're in charge of City 17 and surrounding areas, if not the entirety of Earth. So why do you feel the need to escalate that to saying that they're in charge of everything when there's no hard evidence to support it? Just to make them sound cooler?

    And again, I point out that we never have all the facts when it comes to the HL mythos. That's, usually, the whole point.

    Your only evidence is that they're the only things we've seen more in charge than Breen. Here's the flaw in that logic;

    Someone plays through only HL2, they claim that Elites are the strongest infantry-scale units the Combine has in their arsenal, only because they're the strongest things that person has yet to encounter. But they're wrong, because Ep1 and Ep2 introduce Hunters, which are much more deadly. How could that person have known that the episodes would introduce something like that? They couldn't have. But they assumed and jumped to the conclusion that nothing else existed. Likewise, you're jumping to the conclusion that there's nothing that exists higher up on the food chain than Advisors. Hell, we already know there's stronger, more intelligent beings out there; Nihilanth was able to teleport creatures with his mind, and to hold open the dimensional rift by will alone. The Combine needed to blow up a citadel for that. Of course, I'm not saying that Nihilanth was affiliated with the Combine, but I'm pointing out that there is precadent for such beings to exist in HL2.

    Another metaphor. I hold up a sheet of paper. One side is facing you, one side is facing me. The side facing you has a cat drawn on it. You can't see the side facing me.

    You can say, "That paper has a cat drawn on it." (Or, "The advisors are in charge of the Combine forces that we have so far encountered"). That would be correct. You are making no assumptions, you are jumping to no conclusions. You are observing that which is observable to you and nothing more, or less.

    You could also say "That paper only has a cat drawn on it." (Or, "The Advisors are the only beings controlling the Combine, or the only beings who created the Combine, etc.)

    You might be right. But you can't know, because you can't see the other side of the paper (you can't see outside the limitted scope of the games released so far). What if my side of the paper has a dog drawn on it? Then your assumption would be false.

    The difference is that one is drawing a conclusion from something observed, and the other is drawing a conclusion from something assumed, or hinted at.

    I'm just saying you shouldn't assume to know everything about the Combine or the Advisors when we obviously don't know shit about either.
     
  36. attorney general

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    Breen was a fantastic villain both charming and articulate, But im not entirely sure that he would be a puppet of the combine if he were let loose from their grasp. You have to think that Breen was just as captive as everyone else he just was willing to essentially trade in his soul for his freedom. So I really have no objection to him becoming a advisor, Such a disfigured form would be an ultimate punishment for his act of deception to the human race. I just hope that he will still not be a puppet of the combine because an advisor on the side of the freedom fighters would be an epic thing.. Just imagine advisor versus advisor :D Just imagine the psychic telekinetic chaos that would ensue! Advisor Breen would have his moment to redeem himself and most likely die a noble death as well..

    Pleaaseee... Make breen an advisor.. Just dont make it stupid or random.
     
  37. ríomhaire

    ríomhaire Moderator
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    The Prima guide calls them "the true face of the Combine" IIRC.
     
  38. Omnomnick

    Omnomnick Retired Lead Content Creator
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    I think Breen may be an advisor but he won't help the combine, not in this late, esspecially after i heard 'I need you' at the end of HL2 just as his orb falls back to the base, this might imply that Breen was, all along trying to get Freeman to him so he can 'buy him' from Gman,

    'Did you know your contract was open to the highest bidder',
    'I have learned to ignore such nay sayers, when....quelling them was'
    'I need you'

    They kind of point out some plan between Breen and Gman which involves Alyx and Gordon in some way...
     
  39. Absinthe

    Absinthe The Freeman

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    I did back it up with evidence, a fair bit of which you conveniently skirted around.

    Again, you're being obtuse. Needlessly so.

    What's there to refute? I gave evidence, you said "It's not enough". The most I can do is redirect you the evidence I did supply and force you to address it. For instance, their appearance and biology. You have refused to comment on this at all.

    Because they fit the role perfectly for all my aforementioned reasons, including their biology and their abilities. It would also fit well with the current plotting. We are nearing the end of the HL2 story arc, the end of which will most probably result in the phasing out of the Combine much in the same way the Xenians were in Half-Life 2. They have been entities that have only been gradually unveiled, and it makes sense that they would be the top baddies in the Universal Union.

    You're right that we don't know for sure that they are the original Combine race, in the sense that we have yet to hear some kind of direct in-game confirmation. But I am fully confident they are. If you want to continue speculating, that's fine. But I'm ready to bet money.

    Nihilanth is a single entity. The advisors are legion. That's what gave them superiority over the Xenians, sans their proficiency with teleportation. Yeah, Nihilanth is more powerful than a single advisor, but what does that matter? The Combine use a radically different approach. They don't need to be uber bad guys because the entire point is that they don't need to engage in combat.

    We've seen their abilities, their appearance, and their roles. And I believe all of these fit the bill. There's a difference between cautious speculation in which something conceivably bigger exists over the horizon and pointlessly overreaching in some perpetual expectation of a grander authority. Considering the evidence for the advisors being the original Combine race, I think that pressing any further beyond them is just wasting time.

    You're right that this is all based on implications and hints, but I believe they're substantial enough. And I also think that when you're given enough of them to draw a perfectly reasonable conclusion and yet you refuse to, you're just being needlessly skeptical.

    I'll try to find a source in RtB.
     
  40. SpectreBlofeld

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    Even if the Advisors are the prime rulers of the Combine, it doesn't mean that the form we're familiar with isn't a host body. They apparently use host bodies for living in inhospitable environments, after all.

    They could have been from several different races originally, in fact.
     

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